I Could Barely Kill Pack Rats With .22LR-Remington Thunderbolt. Why?

I watched a deputy shoot a raccoon in the head with a 12 gauge slug.
You could see right through the head to the ground under.
There were gyrations!
 
I'm having a hard time imagining this scenario:

Joe Victim was shot, died, and is now approaching the Pearly Gates.

St. Peter: And what brings you here?

Joe: Somebody shot me, but it was only a .22.

D
 
SD isn't about killing the BG. It's about stopping the threat. Yeah, a 22LR in the gut will kill eventually. In the meantime one can get hacked, stomped, or stabbed to death.

Now, would I prefer a hammer or knife to a gun chambered in 22LR? Er, hell no. However, I would rather carry a Glock chambered in 357 Sig.
 
oh, rats!

As a teenager,I hunted both raccoons and skunks with a single shot .22 rifle.

Never had either creature move after hit with whatever 22lr hp ammo was available.

All were head shots as I would not take any other, especially with skunks.

As you would imagine the skunks made me an accurate hunter very quickly.

Like others have said, placement, placement, placement.

FYI, I have killed many rats with a .177 pellet rifle with one head shot as well.
 
Thunderbolts are 40 gr RN, using an alloy hardened with tin. They're for plinking.
It's the .22 LR equivalent of military FMJ ammo.

If you want to dispatch large rodents, you need to use hollow points or frangible bullets - and preferably something higher quality.

--

Those of you arguing about .22 LR for self defense....
You might as well argue about the best color of unpopped popcorn.
Because it doesn't matter here.
 
In the early 90's I took out several woodchucks (all FAR bigger that rats), using a Ruger pistol and .22 Rem Thunderbolts. Head shots. Worked fine. I later switched to PMC Zappers, which had a little more pep. :D:D.
 
I shoot lots of stuff with sub-sonic hollow points, as long as they open up and transfer all the energy to the little rodent with shrapnel going every direction it's almost instant death. There also a mess to clean up btw.
I would rate these as the #1 hp subsonic on the market today, others are as accurate these do the most damage I've ever seen. They have a large hollow point.
https://www.brownells.com/ammunitio...g-rifle-40gr-lead-hollow-point-prod87474.aspx

Ammunition description
"With its innovative hollow nosed profile, the ELEY subsonic hollow projectile delivers unequalled expansion characteristics, resulting in short penetration with outstanding stopping power; essential features for vermin control .The non-greasy lubricant provides smooth operation in semi-automatic rifles and improves functioning in all weather conditions."
 
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You underestimate the toughness of those pack rats. A few years ago, shot one next to my house, (same ammo)- not dead, ran into the brush. 3 days later he came by, dragging a about a foot of entrails behind him from being gut-shot.
 
I've probably shot a dozen pack rats I've caught in live traps{relocation!} with 22 birdshot, anywhere in the front half will kill them. Shot another dozen with a 177 pellet gun, all rolled over and did the sky walk. Have yet to encounter one of the "super rats" described here. A regular old school rat trap kills them dead instantly.
These are my favorites because they're so easy to set then clean out, I buy them by the dozen. They live in the scrub oak around buildings here then move into garden sheds and detached garages this time of year.
https://www.amazon.com/Professional...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
 
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Have yet to encounter one of the "super rats" described here.
Click to expand...

I find most claims of animal toughness to really boil down to nothing more than shots that fail to do significant damage to the CNS system. Like the above described tough gut-shot rat, well you can shoot a lot of animals and people in the guts and they will run. Why? Nothing immediately vital there.

I have read descriptions of some deer being said to be tough, plus countless descriptions of hogs, coyotes, opossums, raccoons, and mountain lions said to be tough. Again, it almost always comes down to shots not doing the damage that they need to do and that usually comes down to the animals not being shot in the right places. The animals may die, just not on the spot where they were shot. A hog shot through the heart may run 75-100 yards before the brain runs out of oxygen. This isn't an issue of being tough. The shot to the heart won't necessarily result in the hog dropping dead at the point of impact and failure to take out its means of locomotion (legs and girdles) means the hog can still run, for 10-20 seconds, and cover a lot of distance.

As for needing hollowpoint ammo because these rounds are like FMJ and make "tiny holes," you have to realize the tiny hole is HUGE relative to the size of a rat. Think about it this way. A .22 lr bullet is about the same diameter as a rat's wrist. Imagine a hole about the size of your wrist going through your body. Is that a big hole? Sure, and it is many many times the size of what would be produced by a 9mm bullet, right?

Or, on average rat weighs about a half pound, or 7000 grains. It is being shot with a 40 grain bullet that is 1/175th of the rat's weight. Compare that with a 9mm 115 gr. bullet being shot at about the same velocity at an adult human of 180 lbs or 2,520,000 grains, the bullet being 1/21913th of the human's weight.

A 40 gr. round nose bullet should be more than adequate for killing a rat, without expanding or fragmenting, if the shooting does his/her part.

Airgun folks are regularly killing rats with the same or smaller caliber pellets that are lighter in weight and likely often lower in velocity than what the OP is shooting. They make good shots and put rats down.
 
You need to check a couple things, 7000 grains in a pound. So 3,500 grs in half a pound but I think most knew where you were going.

180 x 7K is 1,260,000 grs., just a minor correction on these. That would make a 40gr bullet 1/31,500th a humans weight.
 
I don’t think you can barely kill something ;)

The process is slower than most think, there’s rarely a “bang-dead” scenario. Even total destruction of the central nervous system can result in several minutes of spasms, twitches and other motions that may seem bizarre. I’ve even seen animals on their back with legs in the air with running movements. In time, if you hunt enough... you can tell when the animal is gone and when it is still suffering. In all but a few scenarios will there will always be movement.
Where you shoot them matters. I’ve never shot rats before, but if I was to do so, my first choice would be in the neck. If a good neck shot doesn’t present, then I’ll go for the heart-lungs.
Neck shots seem to get the unpleasant business over the quickest in my experience.

Things can go wrong that don’t make sense.
I once shot a trapped boar with a 45colt (Buffalo Bore factory ammo I think) square in the middle of the top of the head. (I was standing over the cage)
I saw the bullet exit out of its chest and hit the dirt, blood poured out, pig fell over. I went to the tool box on the truck to retrieve a rope to drag the pig out of the trap and when I turned back around the pig was up, milling around the trap. Of course, I immediately shot him below the ear and done.

I went to school to become a paramedic years ago, so I learned to recognize the onset of death, and witnessed it. I graduated, and then went to school for electronics, so I never worked as a paramedic outside of the required clinical hours.

Killed is killed, but rarely instant.
 
A lot of those were indeed still moving and of course the video is cut immediately after most of the shots. From a long distance, it does appear to be a bang-dead scenario.
Death can be fast, but not instant.

What can be instant is in consciousnesses and incapacitation.

A second look, I see more than one that is still squirming before the video is edited.
 
I find your results with those .22LR rounds puzzling and a bit troubling. Yes, shot placement and power make a difference. I used to shoot Norway rats with CCI .22 mag SHOT cartridges and it killed them DRT. We don't have packrats, at least not the rodent kind, where I've lived; but we do have some pretty large critters that are pests or small game.
 
Quote "A lot of those were indeed still moving and of course the video is cut immediately after most of the shots. From a long distance, it does appear to be a bang-dead scenario.
Death can be fast, but not instant.
What can be instant is in consciousnesses and incapacitation.
A second look, I see more than one that is still squirming before the video is edited."

Two were definitely not dead instantly, both were low hits, the other 14 looked to be dead on impact to me Ricky, I've never seen one squirm after being nearly ripped in half by that little 17 bullet and I've shot a truck load of them.
Getting back to the op, my guess is most shots were edge hits or to far towards the cabooses on his pack rats.
 
If you can find them try some Winchester Power Point 22s. I have read they were developed to kill the 10 pound Australian Hares.
 
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