I am about to tell the truth...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cheers guys,

Just to set the record straight I did not fly "fast movers" - I flew gunships(armed helicopters) for two tours in that fun little counrty and ajoining "Indian Country". 1967/68 and again 1969/70.

As far as I know, I was the first gunship shot down in TET '68. I flew TET 69 without incident. First tour was Charley models, second was in Snakes.

I feel no shame about that war, my participation in it, or that of my brothers in arms. I feel shame for the actions of the American people who cut and ran, abandoning any pretense at the concept of "duty, honor, or respect" for those that fell there.

If you let the Dem.s "cut and run" in Iraq - then America will NEVER field a viable military again.

cr
 
Lets see where to start.

Reread my post. I was not advocating any party. I just said we should all quit giving people of so little pricipal a pass on being on our side. They may vote our way on this one issue but believe me people with this little principal care very little about us, they just need us to further their other agenda.

Slugthrower, I am not beating my chest I just get tired of people like Dick Cheyney and Bill O'Reilly talking tough when they are just cowards with a lot of money and exposure. Agree with most of what you said.

Groundhog- right on.

Junkpile- ITs junk.

Trip20- reread my post.

Crashresidue- try to watch what John Kerry said, I don't think he mentioned you.

tuttle8- Communism, terrorism always some ism. Your blind patriotic attitude without education is the biggest part of the problem. What you said has very liitle to do with what I originally posted but thanks for the patriotism lesson I did not get nearly enough nationalism training in school nor do I get enough from FOX news.

Thunderhawk88- Military service is something to be proud of. It is those who have put their ass on the line that make your opinion viable. Remember Support the troops....I guess unless one says something you don't like.

Musketeer- reread my post and the first part of this reply.

buzz-knoxx - Dan Rather was framed.

Obi-wan - Military service was a big issue in the selection(not election) remember the Swiftboat Republicans for NewSpeak.

2nd Amendment- Read the second amendment MILITIA, thats not you, thats me.

Don H- Whats your point?

rhgunguy- IF Cr was flying over Vnam and I posted my reply to his before I read that part and that is my fault entirely, I apologize for asking about his military record, unlike many to include our Presinidiot, I won't question another vets service record and I do apologize. On the Dan Rather thing, your President and his Cronys who own the media ruined Dan Rather and that was a diservice to you and me...but then again I guess you probably consider Brit Hume, Katie Couric, and Bill O'Reilly real journalist.

Csspecs- ?????
 
On the Dan Rather thing, your President and his Cronys who own the media ruined Dan Rather and that was a diservice to you and me...
The President and his cronies own the media huh? You were closer to the truth with the whole "George Bush I passed the AWB" thing.

Military service was a big issue in the selection(not election) remember the Swiftboat Republicans for NewSpeak.
The Swiftboat VETS were a non-profit political group of servicemen that actualy SERVED with John Kerry and deemed him unfit for command. Again, you knock on actuall combat veterans who have FIRST-HAND knowledge of the subject because their truth does not fit your veiws. The more I see this the less I belive that you served at all. And by the way, it was an ELECTION. President Bush won both the popular and electoral votes. The popular vote he won by 3,000,176 votes! Kerry lost, get over it.

How about 922r? I don't know about you but a law that bans "assault weapons" (also called modern rifles by people who look stuff up for themselves) would be called a AWB right?

Was HR 922r known as "The Assault Weapons Ban"? No.

Besides, I have no problem with 922r. It makes guns the only product that we do not have a trade deficit in with China. For God sake, if you don't drive American-made, at least Shoot American-made!:D
 
Last edited:
Marano,

When John Kerry whipped out his "baby-killer" paint brush in the '70's - It had a WIDE coverage area. It covered everybody that had been "in-country" - or didn't you hear that part?

cr
 
That wasn't a response to my point. That was a repetition of my name in an attempt to sidestep the point. Unless you were speaking of your point, and conceding my own point?
 
Thunderhawk88- Military service is something to be proud of. It is those who have put their ass on the line that make your opinion viable. Remember Support the troops....I guess unless one says something you don't like.

Marano, sorry Guardsman, but my ass was on the line. Had 7 years in the Corps, the last one in a Naval Hospital. THAT is what makes my opinion viable. Not some blow-hard like you!
 
marano said:
2nd Amendment- Read the second amendment MILITIA, thats not you, thats me.

Oh my goodness! You are a funny little man!

YOU read the Second Amendment. The militia is all of us. Your service, such as it was, is immaterial to a fundamental right. You "earned" nothing.
 
"To say the least I believe I have earned the right to carry a weapon especially with what the second amendment says about a well armed militia...or the part that most people leave out."

...and what YOU leave out is the right of the PEOPLE...and most PEOPLE do NOT leave out a well REGULATED militia. Where do you get your facts that you call truth? I get mine from the original documents.

"tuttle8- Communism, terrorism always some ism. Your blind patriotic attitude without education is the biggest part of the problem. What you said has very liitle to do with what I originally posted but thanks for the patriotism lesson I did not get nearly enough nationalism training in school nor do I get enough from FOX news."

I'll concede that it wasn't your point. However, as most have already, I responded to your reasoning of your opinion based on examples you gave. Blind education? Let me tell you something. My father spent enough time their and ultimatley suffered for 30 years before his untimely death at the ripe old age of 55. He spoke very little of what happened there and what the war was really about except to me. I gave you a general single viewpoint and example of why we were there. I doesn't even scratch the surface. So, for someone that served in the National Guard compared to one being on the ground for two tours with 2 purple hearts and two bronze stars only to arrive at San Francisco's airport with a big hark of spit in his face from a 9 year old, you stand NO ground.

You earning your right? YOU didn't. Neither did I. I was born with that right.
 
Quote:
Thunderhawk88- Military service is something to be proud of. It is those who have put their ass on the line that make your opinion viable. Remember Support the troops....I guess unless one says something you don't like.
Marano, sorry Guardsman, but my ass was on the line. Had 7 years in the Corps, the last one in a Naval Hospital. THAT is what makes my opinion viable. Not some blow-hard like you!

I don't think I've ever seen such a devastating response... Thank you for your service Thunder.
 
Cheers,

OK, somewhere is this diatribe - we went from bashing Marano's opinion to bashing him. That's NOT why I got involved with this thread.

My younger brother was too young for Nam - Marano obviously was also. My brother has ALWAYS had a complex about it. I don't understand that, but it's beside the point. He wore the uniform - Marano did too. Marano CHOSE to wear the uniform - he DID NOT have to. Give him a break!

Getting shot at or even getting shot doesn't makes anyone's opinion more valid than someone's who's never been "put in harms way". They're OPINIONS - just like *ssholes - everybody has at least one!

Everytime I get involved in a discussion on the net, I always type out whatever response I feel, walk out to the carport, smoke a cigarette and come back in , re-read it and then decide to either post or not post. This lets me cool down and think.

Maybe some of us here might want to try it.

Gentle winds,
cr
 
Patriotism and Nationalism

Some use these words as if they are somehow a bad thing. They are not. Neither requires a slavish unthinking devotion to individuals in govt, or their policies. What they do require is the belief that our country and our system of govt is worthwhile, deserving of our respect and when necessary, our service. These are not bad things. And anyone who implies that they are does not understand them.

As to the original poster's premise, that we should not blindly accept that republicans are on our side, well, we should not blindly accept anything about politicians, no matter what the party.

No matter who actually signs gun control into law, (and the Dems have done it more often), look for a moment at who proposes the majority of the legislation (especially on the Federal level). IIRC, it wasn't the Republicans.
 
Cr-
fair enough, I think it's possible my post bordered on it. That said, I think he tried to pull a "I served" card on thunderhawk and was promptly given a USMC card. His argument (both the one attacking Bush and attacking Thunderhawk), predicated on his being superior for serving simply completely fell apart in the face of another's service. Pointing this out may have been poor taste, but it was just devastating.

And I agree that this may have degenerated into attacks on marano, but I think this is a symptom of his original argument--that personal attacks on someone can mean anything about their opinion or ability to protect freedoms.
 
crashresidue said:
Everytime I get involved in a discussion on the net, I always type out whatever response I feel, walk out to the carport, smoke a cigarette and come back in , re-read it and then decide to either post or not post. This lets me cool down and think.
CR, that's dang good advice. I really wish more people would follow it before they hit the "Reply" button.

Having said that, I know many who have served, but feel some form of guilt over not being able to serve in combat. I know just as many who, once being in combat, wished they had never been there. And I know scads of people that have never served. None of that makes their opinions more or less authentic.

All of this to say, if you don't like the message, then by all means, attack the message, not the messenger.
 
Marano:

With regard to your original post, I don't think anyone is giving a free pass. If anything, we (as gun owners) identify primarily as Republicans because we have more of a "conservative" mindset. That's it--nothing more, nothing less.

In these times, however, we have more RINO's--Republicans In Name Only--who would totally trash our rights because it is convenient to do so. Instead of standing for what is right, they try to "please" the big money--constituents who will fatten their war chests to achieve political power.

As for John Kerry--sorry. I have absolutely NO respect for that idiot. I don't know about his alleged service in Viet Nam. I don't know about his decorations.

I do know that he accomplished an immense insult to our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coast Guardsmen when he made the remark that if you did not get an education you would end up in Iraq.

My son heard that remark. Let me tell you what happened: when Kerry uttered that remark, I saw my son--a fine young man, 24 years old now, collapse--LITERALLY--in uncontrolled tears and anguish.

My son asked me this: "Is that what people think of us?" "Is that all we are worth?"

You see, my son was (is) a Marine. Served from 6/2001 to 6/2005. He spent 7 months in Fallujah; his gun (M198 howitzer, C Battery, 1/12 Marines, Kaneohe Bay, HI) fired the first war shot into Fallujah, during the second battle when the city was finally taken.

Fallujah is the city where the four American contractors were killed and desecrated, their burnt bodies pictured hanging from a bridge. My son later showed me a picture of him, standing on that same bridge.

My son saw a transport vehicle--the one right in front of him--hit with an IED. Two of his close friends were blown apart--right in front of him. This was on the way to the line of departure; he was less than one week in country.

My son told me that during a mortar attack on his base, he had hit the ground to avoid blast and shrapnel. He heard a whistling, whirring noise, looked up, and saw a mortar rocket HEADED RIGHT FOR HIM. He said to me that he thought that at that moment he thought that he was a dead man.

The rocket impacted less than 5 feet from him--and buried itself halfway in the dirt. It was a dud. He showed me a picture of it, taken right after the attack.

My son spent two months firing artillery, two months on checkpoints, and two months clearing houses and buildings.

He was talking to me one time about clearing houses, and showing me some tricks of the trade. When I remarked about how loud an M16 was in a closed room, my son--the one I still remember carrying on my back; taking baby steps with, and sitting on my lap--told me, "No, it's not. You don't even hear it."

He then told me that one time he--and one other Marine from his unit--entered a room in Fallujah. There, four Iraqis were waiting. They were armed, with AK's. He described the room as about the size of our living room. Then, he stopped talking, and looked down.

I asked him what happened. He looked up and simply said, "We walked out. They didn't".

It was the last time I asked him about what had happened.

Remember that helicopter crash that killed 23 Marines? They were ALL from his unit. He missed being on that helicopter by 5 MINUTES.

I think of him--and I think of all the fine young men and women who have served--and the ones who will NEVER come home, and the families who were left behind with broken hearts that will never heal.

And, I remember John Kerry's words.

Sorry--I can't find any respect for that waste of flesh. And I hope I never meet him or even see him face to face. I might throw up.

And THAT'S the truth--as I know it.

For all who served honorably--God bless and God speed.
 
If I was out of line in my response to Marano I apologise to the Forum. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I joined the Marine Corps. Though I am very proud of my service, I never thought of it as anything special (just special to me). Hell, up until a few years ago, I thought just about every guy around my age had served in one of the military services.
That said, I did take offense to someone not only waving their service in everyone's face like it made them better, but telling me my opinion was viable because of people like him who had served. Everyone's opinion is viable in this country. That is what makes this country great. And nobody needs to take a step back because some of us served. We all do what we got to do.

Jim (Thunder)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top