Hunting Ethics

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Lot of good comments here. Makes you think a little. I'm pretty much with PaHoo's ideas. When it comes to ethics you have to make your own rules and live by them. Talk about wasting ammo, I really could not get out for deer season the first day and went out about 2 hours the first day around home. It is a shotgun area and I have never hunted in one before. I don't believe anybody I heard shoot let loose with less than 5 rounds. I am thinking a lot of wounded deer running now, but I hope I am wrong.
 
During game seasons and/or good times where survival does not require game meat...

1)obey all game laws
2)afford the critter on the other end of the rifle the same respect I would like if I were about to be "dispatched" by gun fire...
3)treat the dead animal with the utmost care to insure fresh meat for my family...

4)don't disrespect the life of the animal capable of providing sustenance and life to me and mine...

Oh yeah... know what lies beyond the critter when I free the sear...

brent
 
Questioning Public safety laws is in itself unethical.
In MN Firearms safety, Ethics are now taught by the conservation officer.
There are too many personal Codes that people live by and feel anyone not walking by that code to be unethical.
One that gets me all the time is in the training films the ethical hunter always looks the part. Always dressed in the latest field dress Bass Pro and cabelas sells and the slob hunter, (read; road hunter, shooting ducks on the water, shooting onto private land and such are dressed like labors/farm boys! :confused:
 
Gbro said:
Questioning Public safety laws is in itself unethical.
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Respectfully, I disagree. To the contrary, I think that it is the duty of every citizen to question the law, whether it may be pubic safety or not. We are not free to ignore the law, but we are certainly have a duty to question the law. We also have a duty to write, call, email, and generally raise hell at our elected officials to change laws that might be inimical to the freedoms we all share.
 
PawPaw,

:confused:

With respect...When its comes to 'pubic safety' you can bet I'll question most laws. :D

Guess you knew that one wasn't gonna be left alone...

...but most public safety hunting laws that are written around here are written with the benefit of the majority in mind. I would also wish the trespassing laws and the proof of written permission to be hunting said property would be more forcefully enforced.
 
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not exactly the answers I was looking for but interesting dicussion non the less.


I was just wondering how a clean kill with a small caliber is considered unethical while an unclean kill with a large magnum round is considered good sport.
 
Who in the world ever said that shooting an elk in the butt with a howitzer and letting it wander for miles was ethical?

If you have a clean shot, and fire with reasonable certainty that you'll connect and leave a lethal wound, that was an ethical shot. If you don't make a lethal hit and leave a wounded animal, that puts you in the gray area of either you just had a bit of bad luck, or you badly misjudged your abilities and the lethality of your weapon.

Taking a gun out into the field that can only kill by a direct head or heart shot, and then taking shots that you are only 10% sure of a lethal hit is unethical. There is no other way to describe it, and yes, it applies to a lot of people here. Taking a 600 yard shot at a mountain goat without even knowing if you'll hit the bloody mountain that he's standing on, then shooting until a round accidentally connects is not particularly ethical in my opinion, nor is taking a 600 yard shot at an antelope.

That is all there is to it. If you pull that trigger without being almost certain of a hit, you're in a gray area. If you pull that trigger knowing that only an act of god will make that thing drop you've crossed the line.

If you were hunting to keep yourself alive, it would be a slightly different issue. I'd be willing to say that every hunter has the ability to know whether he is an ethical hunter, but I've very rarely seen genuinely ethical and responsible behaviors in real life.

Shooting at a deer's head at 250 yards may be seen as ethical by some people, because a head shot is almost certainly going to kill. You either hit, or you miss. But, not even half of that head is even remotely going to create a lethal hit. You could blow that thing's muzzle completely off, blind it, and leave it incapable of staying alive, but still able to escape you.

This is just like ripping through a red light. Sooner or later, the odds will catch up with you, and you'll cause an accident, and it would be your fault.
 
shortwave said:
...but most public safety hunting laws that are written around here are written with the benefit of the majority in mind. I would also wish the trespassing laws and the proof of written permission to be hunting said property would be more forcefully enforced.
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Just one example where enough people raising cane made a difference. Louisiana's trespass laws were woefully poor for a number of years, but a bunch of people got together and made enough legislators uncomfortable until the law was changed. Now we have an extremely workable trespass law that seems to be working just fine.
 
I was just wondering how a clean kill with a small caliber is considered unethical while an unclean kill with a large magnum round is considered good sport.
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It's not. The issue is not, and never has been, about the kill. dead is dead, and there's nothing about it. That entire statement is just ridiculous.

The issue is, whether the shot taken was an ethical decision.

A lucky shot with a small OR large caliber that had only a remote chance of killing, taken by a person who deliberately took a shot that he wasn't at least reasonably certain of a kill is unethical. I've passed up shots at deer that I wasn't absolutely certain of.

If you have ever completely missed an animal because you either lacked the skill or your equipment was not up to the demands, you probably shouldn't have taken that shot. That's all there is to the question.


Every thread on this board, for the most part, is a learning opportunity. All you seem to be taking away from the numerous threads on hunting ethics is that lot's of people think you're wrong. You said that in your initial post.

take a moment and look at that, and maybe you'll find out that you are, in fact, wrong.
 
was just wondering how a clean kill with a small caliber is considered unethical while an unclean kill with a large magnum round is considered good sport.______________
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If you are capable of taking the animal with the caliber chosen, within a range that it performs as intended and its legal in your area ...then its not unethical at all.
 
Respect,

for your game, for your fellow hunters and for the non-hunting public as well. (don't dump carcasses right in the parking lot:mad:)
and thank you _____ for pointing out the difference between legal and ethical. There are many examples, some already mentioned, of legal behavior one might find unethical and ethical behavior that is illegal. (antler restrictions:confused:)
I think one must also factor in immature behavior, freezing cold, shaking like a leaf and taking a 100yd neck shot, or flat out mistakes, forgot to exhale and squeeze jerked the trigger and made a bad shot I don't think that's unethical. I beat myself up enough when I do it. Also agree much is personal and a matter of attitude, knew a hunter once who prided himself on never taking a rest I don't care if you kill every deer you ever shoot at clean, if you have the opportunity to take a solid rest and you don't that's unethical in my book.
 
The issue is, whether the shot taken was an ethical decision.

A lucky shot with a small OR large caliber that had only a remote chance of killing, taken by a person who deliberately took a shot that he wasn't at least reasonably certain of a kill is unethical. I've passed up shots at deer that I wasn't absolutely certain of.

If you have ever completely missed an animal because you either lacked the skill or your equipment was not up to the demands, you probably shouldn't have taken that shot. That's all there is to the question.
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+1

Sadly, many hunters are just so darned happy/naive/excited/pressured to have the opportunity to shoot, that they will shoot even though the shot isn't proper, or they haven't properly sighted in their guns, haven't properly identified their target, etc.
 
What is with the "Shooting birds on the ground" and "Shooting Ducks on the water"? I have been called unethical for shooting running deer, even for shooting a deer that was walking. Why is it ethical to shoot at birds and rabbits that are moving , but not deer? I rarely miss but admit the first shot usually knocks them down and then maybe 50% of the time I need a finisher. I have been deer hunting for a long time and believe me, I look and look to make sure I missed, even with a standing shots. More hunters should check harder after a miss.

Don't even start on head shots.
 
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My dad used to hunt with a crew from his company, and one year, they took "Ed."

Ed bagged a spike. Broke one of the legs completely. Totally missed the entire body, but crippled it completely. it couldn't do anything but hobble. so, he herded it back to camp and shot it when he got there.

you know, you don't have to be a card carrying member of peta to know that just isn't right.

Ed never went back to deer camp. Can I hear an amen?
 
Ed should stop telling tall tales. A deer with 3 legs can keep up with a four legged deer with ease. You can't even tell it has only 3 legs until it slows to walk and then has a weird gait. You can see something is wrong but have to look close to see it is missing a leg. I have shot one doe that had a front leg missing below the elbow and it was healed over, may be for years. Doubtless someone's Uncle George saw a deer chew it's front leg off after it stepped in a fox trap, so that is probably what happened. Two years ago I shot a buck that was missing about 12" of a back leg. It was a fresh wound and I don't see how the deer could reach around to chew it off, so I am guessing it was shot off. My Buddy is a Butcher and every year they get what he calls "Stumpies", deer missing legs that are healed over. Point is, it is not a perfect world and things do go wrong whether you shoot at a moving animal or a standing animal. Sometimes we all forget we were young and dumb once. Us older guys had small game to make mistakes on when we grew up. Now most kids go right to deer hunting because there is not much small game hunting in my state.

This may come up twice, I had a power out.
 
I wasn't there. three of the men at the camp, my father, and two others told the story about him finishing it right outside of camp, but I'm not sure if there were actually any eyewitnesses.

Has anyone ever seen a deer with a freshly broken femur, and maybe injury to the offside leg or other possible injury?

I was a kid at the time, so I won't vouch for it other than to say that Ed was a jackass of a whole different order, that was easy to see for me, and i don't doubt he would have done thies very thing. I also can't imagine why my father would have told the story if it wasn't true, or wasn't pretty certain it was true. He never, to my knowledge, told fish stories.

So, everyone, take it at face value. Either it's a lie told by a handful of men, or a true history. I don't know.

I've withheld the last name, just in case an 80 year old ed **** is reading this.


Btw, a friend of mine had a dog named brutus, who had an amputated rear leg. Yes, he functioned quite well, but I don't figure he did for the first few months.
 
I gave some trapped pigs away in the spring and I was there to insure that they were killed before they left the property, that's our policy, none leave alive.

The guys that came to get them brought a 22 and shot them all in the head. I pointed out that one was still alert, and they replied "awe he will die eventually"

After what seemed like a minute, I pulled out my 9mm and finished it. They kinda had a shocked look on their faces.
 
First off, I think the word "ethics" has no business in a hunters safety coarse. Ethics vary far and wide and the only thing the class should teach is legal not moral issues. A buddy of mine, a 4H firearms instructor, got into a heated debate at his daughters hunters coarse because the instructor was spewing personal, sometimes extreme, opinions about ethics. Can't remember the exact subject matter but it was pretty out there from what I recall.

IMO, a great shot from a "too small" of gun is way better than a **** poor shot from the perfect gun. But I'll be a proponent of the "use enough gun" mantra till the day I die. Most hunters (and I may very well be one) don't have the patience, discipline and to be frank, the time required to only take perfect shots. The facts are that if I had only waited for perfect shots on coyotes my number of coyote kills would be exactly 1. As it is I've killed a couple dozen and never had one escape and only a couple that required a follow up shot. None lived longer than a minute or 2 after the first hit. As it is, some of these coyotes I could of hit with lesser guns but I would be less confident that all would of been recovered. Everybody knows that a .22lr will kill any deer that walks but a person would have to be a moron to recommend one for deer hunting even to a very patient person with all the time in the world.

Basically, more power and bigger, well designed bullets lead to more damage that can save the day when we fail to make that perfect shot. And anyone who says they make the perfect shot every time is a liar.

LK
 
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Pawpaw posted;
Respectfully, I disagree. To the contrary, I think that it is the duty of every citizen to question the law, whether it may be pubic safety or not. We are not free to ignore the law, but we are certainly have a duty to question the law. We also have a duty to write, call, email, and generally raise hell at our elected officials to change laws that might be inimical to the freedoms we all share.
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Respectfully back,
I agree with you that as an individual we have every right, thankfully to complain about anything we don't like, however as a hunter, we as a group need to use our very best judgments and morals to be the safest and knowledgeable group of people there is.
We owe it to our children(hunters of the future) to do the right thing at all times.
I posted my opinion after reading this post by Daekar;
I mean honestly... do you think that killing a deer after sunset is morally wrong? What about shooting geese with a 22 or using a 30.06 for deer in Indiana? Game laws are so far from being linked with morality that it's not even funny.
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1.Shooting a deer after sunset is illegal. Why would this even be questioned?
What good do we bring to our brother and sister hunters to debate this??

2.Shooting Geese with a 22 (I will read that to mean a .22 rim-fire for no better reason than i assume that is what you are referring to.
Federal waterfowl regulations control this across the nation and shooting a bullet at water is so wrong we need not go on, and of course Geese are also hunted on land and a .22 bullet will travel 1.5 miles or more. How long before you end up killing someone because of your desires?

3.MN also has rifle free zones below the tree line of the state. That rule I am positive is written in the blood of innocent members of our great country both hunters and non-hunters alike.

So I will again state, "Questioning Public safety laws is in itself unethical"
Not that I haven't done just that. My 1st year Elk hunting in the Great State of Colorado I was upset because the regulations forbid the wearing of camouflage safety apparel. I had just bought a big Blaze cammo hunting parka and I couldn't wear it in Colorado, however I could legaly wear a blaze orange mesh vest although it was recommended against, but I attached that mesh vest to the parka with snaps and wore it like that.
Then during that 3rd rifle season I heard several hunters moving through the area I was in and from an elevated position I had a very hard time spotting them because there 10-20 year old solid colored vest was not seen at all from the side and my full sleeve cammo parka was much more visible.
 
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