Hunting Ethics

Being that this game is a "nussance animal" Is it ok for me to hunt for sport and leave the carcus for the buzzards?

Up to you. I often wonder if such 'hunts' don't actually create a nussance worse then the one they are hunting?

We humans have a way of screwing up the ecology by doing things we shouldn't, and putting things in a bigger mess then when we started.

I'd take a long look at maybe your solution is worse then the original problem?

Pigs do positive things in their rooting around, as well...

By the way, the single most important thing to me is a clean, accurate killing shot. Animals don't deserve to suffer anymore then we do...Actually we probably deserve to suffer more then they...

Shooting pigs with inadequate bullets is really offensive. Just because some government calls a pig 'vermin' doesn't take away from the fact that they are REAL close to being human: very smart, skin character, well developed family units, etc. Do they mate for life, like crows?
 
Ever been walking through the woods and found 3 or 4 half-rotted bucks in a pile, their antlers cut off and the rest half eaten by buzzards and wild dogs? I have. I see this a dozen times every hunting season. (And often a few weeks after hunting season too) These deer are killed by people who only value antlers and have no intentions of using the meat. They kill for the fun of watching something die, then bragging to their buddies. Do you think that this is more sporting than fighting dogs?

If you 'd said that to begin with, instead of putting trophy hunters in the same category as the low lifes you mentioned, there wouldn't have been any disagreement.

Guess I don't define low life poachers as trophy hunters. Hope you don't either.
 
Hogs are destructive, nuisance animals. Think of them as cloven hoofed rats. Killing as many as you can find and leaving them for the others to eat is good management.

The thing that seems to get overlooked in these threads is the term management. If left unchecked, the hogs would take over. The only thing better than running into a herd of hogs and killing one, is running into a herd of hogs with a belt fed firearm, and killing all of them. Not to worry, as you cannot get around and kill all the feral hogs in this country. There will always be some left, because they can breed faster than you can kill them.

Take into consideration that the sow will farrow 9 to 12 pigs. Half will be females. They can breed by the time they are 3 months old. Gestation is 121 days (3 months, 3 weeks, and 3 days.) Half of them will be females and it starts over. If you take one sow and farrow her on Jan 1 and figure how many hogs result from that birth in the next year, it is geometric. So if you take that one female and figure no death loss, and an average of 10 pigs per litter, you could potentially have about 1500 births from that one sow in a years time. We know that lots of critters like piglets and they wont all live, but one sow can very be responsible for producing over 500 pigs by the end of the year. By the third generation you are looking at 125 females that can birth 10 pigs each.................It is difficult to attach moral issues to hogs.

As long as you use sufficient rifle to make a clean instant one shot kill, then there is no moral issue with killing hogs. The ones you kill will be eaten by the other hogs before morning. You are only accelerating the natural food chain.
 
HMMMM. So, the solution is to kill the hogs, to provide food for the other hogs, so then can eat better, and bred faster???
:confused:

Since hog is pretty tasty, it sure would be nice if those sows went on someone's dinner table...
 
W.C. Quantrill, thats the sum of alot of pigs. I ask the question, "does the state of Texas(or any other states with pig problem) have a program to accept the meat for the needy or if not, why?
 
To answer shortwave's question kinda...
The bigest problem in Texas is temperature.
Pig meat doesn't last long without it being chilled. The only chilly months here are January and February.
Other than that, it takes several coolers with pre-purchased ice to harvest all of it.
Then, the state is quite large. How far a drive is too far?
Gas prices didn't go down in the last year. Who's gonna pay that gas fee for a nusance animal?

We do the best we can by calling local folks and seeing if they can come get the hogs right then.
They can butcher them while we butcher ours.
If we can't find anyone quick, we drag them to the fencelines and let them 'be', for mother nature.
Feral pigs have already driven ranchers poor. Why force ranchers even more in debt while trying to get rid of them?

What logistics can you come up with that will satisfy timeline and budgets, for the entire state?
The current policy is, let the ranchers fend for themselves.
It is much cheaper for everyone involved.
 
I gotta come down south with a bunch of coolers and do some hog hunting to fill the freezers. I could proably fit 5-6 of them in my big chest freezer.:D
 
Why?

Some of you wonder why some private land owners don't open their properties up to the public for hunting. It might be the guys that leave mounds of trash behind. It could be the guys that leave gates open. It could be the guys that can't tell the difference between whitetail and a whiteface. It could be the guys that bring along a dozen buddies to party. It could be the guy that sues for twisting his ankle.

Yeah, makes you wonder why more private land isn't open for the public to use.:confused:
 
RR, that's exactly why more private land is closed to hunters now days...used to be people respected other's property.

A few folks messed that up for the rest of us...at least in my neck of the woods.
Very few people let others hunt on their land now...not like it was 20 years ago.:(
 
re:silenthitz

Not too long ago I overheard a local landowner talking about this issue. He was recalling an incident.

He allowed this fellow to use his land to hunt. This guy showed up along with a dozen of his buddies. They proceeded to have good ol' time with beer and loud music. They thrashed his land. Now, what do suppose the odds are that this guy will let someone else use his land? I'll give you a hint...zero!
 
Seen it happen here over the years, trashed land, cut fences...owners just get tired of that crap and close it. I don't blame them, if my land was trashed, it would be posted too.
 
This is a moral dilema for me.

Just the other day I caught a rat in my house and could have let it go, but instead I whacked him with a shovel 3 times and he died. Now I did not release the rat because I know he would return and continue to breed and bring in other rats. So I whacked him.

Now I had no guilt what so ever about whacking this rat for the mere fact that he exists and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Now if I take it up to a larger species of animal and whacked something bigger, like a dog or cat. I would feel remose. I would not shot and kill a dog that constantly dug through my garbage. I would shoot him with rubber buck shot from a shotgun and scare him away for good.

Now suppose I am hunting for hog, rabbit, bambi or even a panda bear. If I hunt it and kill it for sport and leave the carcus is it any different than killing the rat in my house for the mere fact that he exists and was in the wrong spot?

These are some pretty far out scenarios that you are making up here. Shooting an animal that is on your state's big game list, and then leaving it to waste would generally be a hunting regulation offense. You could be fined, have equipment used in the hunt seized, and have your hunting rights abridged. That is how it is here in Oregon.

Vermin like Feral hogs, coyotes, and rattlesnakes are no way in the same category. Here in Oregon, all of these animals are totally unprotected, and can be legally shot at any time.

And regarding killing a rat in your yard: My goodness, what else are you supposed to do? Capture it and take it to your local Humane Society, and have them put it up for adoption?

Your Guidelines here should be both legal, and then religious. First, if killing the animal in a particular way is illegal, then it should never be done. Secondly, consider what your own religion may give guidance on the issue. After all, God gave man dominion over all of the animals. None of them is considered to have the same rights as man. Only man was created in God's image.

That said, one should never be intentionally cruel to any animal, even the most destructive pest. All animals deserve to have a quick death. Many states even require that hunters not intentionally allow an animal to suffer, and quickly dispatch it if that is possible.

I, for one, could never ever bow hunt. The effectiveness and reliability of a bow in quickly dispatching game just cannot come close to that of a modern rifle. When I kill an animal I don't want it to suffer for any length of time. I thus make every effort to take only what I personally consider to be ethical shots where I have high assurance that I can place my shot so that the animal quickly expires.

Now, does that mean that bow hunting is unethical, just because I am personally not comfortable doing it? I certainly don't think so. Humans have been hunting animals for thousands of years with bows. If someone else wants to hunt by bow, I'm all for that person having the right to do so.

We all have to make our own personal choices regarding what we are comfortable doing. And we all need to fully obey the law, and all hunting regulations.

But you are fretting far too much over this, in my opinion. Feral hogs are indeed very destructive. They are considered to be a harmful invasive species here in Oregon. Thus, just like the Nutria here in our state, there are no limitations on killing them. Both of these animals don't belong here, and are harmful to the natural ecosystem.

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I'm a meat hunter and I try to be a good steward of this good Earth we live on. Has I see it hogs and coyotes are vermin where I live. If you can use parts of the carcass after killing them, great, if not the worms and buzzards will enjoy the gift you've given them. The Earth doesn't waste anything.

That is very well put. I have been on varmint hunts where I have returned to locations the very next day, and the animal's body is already practically picked clean.

In fact, some birds like crows, magpies, and even huge turkey vultures seemed to be attracted to our hunting. It was practically like we were ringing the dinner bell for them. They were often feeding on animals only a few minutes after they were killed.

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During the big Guadalupe River flood in 1998, my cousin trapped 34 feral hogs within a hundred yards of his house. And I've seen photos of over a hundred feral hogs around a deer feeder.

When you have those sorts of numbers of destructive feral animals, you just can't worry about using or leaving the carcasses. You have to kill as many as you can. If you have time and energy to take the meat, great. You do what you can.

Protecting your property from damage is far more important than worrying about feeding buzzards and coyotes.

Yeah, sure, you can make a sport out of going out hog hunting. No problem. But that's not the same as eradicating a pestiferous and harmful animal--which has nothing to do with "hunting".
 
My thought is that if someone is stupid enough to leave a place where he was granted permission to hunt in worse condition than when he got there than he shouldnt have the right to hunt anywhere. Me and a few friends were granted permission a long tim aga to hunt a piece of property and we still do because we leave it better than when we got there. We also lend a helping hand to the owner on weekends or whenever we can. Its good ethics and all hunters should respect the land no matter where we are.
Roy, Its a good law that we have in NJ that noone can sue someone if their engaged in an outdoor activity on another persons land. Its a great law and every stste should adopt it to protect the landowners and to make it a little easier to gain access. Also, Our game law book has a card that the hunter signs and gives to landowner to release him from any lawsuit.
 
Years back, a group of us leased a ranch near Uvalde, Texas for about three years. Dunno why, but that particular ranch just didn't have all that many deer on it. The guy from whom we leased, as a response to our grumping, suggested a ranch which had never been hunted. He called the owner, telling him, "These guys are okay. They leave a place better than what they found it."

Being helpful to a landowner can improve one's life...

Art
 
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