Hunting Ethics

In my personal opinion yes it is unethical and immoral to kill a animal if you don't intend to eat it. Again I say that is my personal opinion and I don't attempt to impose it on others.....
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Well, you are imposing that on others by your judgement if you consider us immoral because we like to hunt so much that we have an abundance of game THAT WE CAN'T EAT ALL OF , but GIVE TO OTHERS TO EAT who, in my experience, have always greatly appreciated it, and in some cases, sorely needed it.

Also, hope you don't consider it immoral to thin out the pest population.:cool:

Maybe you didn't really mean it that way and you can clarify.
 
Yithian said:
Hunting is a sport.
Ethical hunting is debatable for each instance involved.
There is no set standard of what is ethical, and what isn't.

If you, as a hunter, have issues with your decisions to hunt, don't repeat your 'mistakes', or stop hunting.
It wouldn't be a Sport if there was no risk of failure.

And remember; what you think is unethical, could be just the opposite to another person.
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What's going on in Texas?

If you can M'n'B, come down and help us out.
Our freezers are full.
Our friends freezers are near full too.
We try to donate every pig we don't want, but the room to store them is depleting.
We are not going to let them breed and multiply freely.
The only respite they get is during deer season.

Next time we go out, next week prob, I will take pictures of the damage to property and fencing.
The issue here is not something ethics can fix.

As far as my question of the mountain lions, yes, you can bet I will take some meat from them.
But the freezer here is already crammed with pork and some deer, and all my friends think it is disgusting to think of eating cats.
That family with the lions on their property is afraid. They have two kinds of wild animals frequenting their property that can kill people.
 
Ethics and morality?

I love to Squirrel hunt...but I simply can not eat them any more. Tried more ways than I can count to prepare the meat and cook them in a way that is edible. Perhaps the fact that when I have hunted them in the past it was in the piney woods of E Texas. Maybe it was the Terpintine from all the pine seed they eat...not sure. But what I do know is that since I can not eat them I do not hunt them anymore. Sitting out in the woods the last few years deer hunting it was amazing how many squirrels I would see and the desire to hunt them has been amazing. But again I am not going to eat them so I choose not to hunt them. But if they were causing me problems around my house I would not think twice about eliminating them. I feel the same way about hogs. If they are destroying someones property and he asked me if I would help him with the control of these because they were destroying his property then I do not think I would have an issue killing a hog and leaving it lay. But short of one of these issues I simply can not bring myself to kill an animal just to kill it.

I live in Texas and hogs here multiply like crazy. The sows can give birth an average of 2 and a half times a year with litters of 6-10 if I have heard correctly. They are destroying land and need to be controlled. As far as eating them...if they are small and would be good to eat of course I would eat them. If I was not going to eat them I would try to find someone that needed the meat and give it to them. But even if I could not do that I would still be willing to kill hogs to control/reduce the population.

As far as predators they are just that and need to be controlled as well.

Trophy hunting...I do enjoy and try to get a deer every year that has a bigger rack than any I have taken up to that point. Do I eat the meat? Absolutely! And it would not matter if it had a small rack or a large rack. Does that mean I am unethical or do not have morals just because I want a deer with a large rack? I do not think so. Just the same the lease I am going to be hunting on this year mandates you take a doe before you take your buck. I am struggling with this a little. Not because I do not eat the meat. But because with it being only me and my wife we usually eat the one deer I take a year and that is all. I am concerned about the meat going to waste so I am looking for a place that can use the meat.

I was raised not to shoot and or kill an animal unless you intend to eat it or it was destroying your property. I like to think I honor that upbringing and will and do pass it on.

If you are assisting a land owner with population control of hogs go have fun. If there is a way to preserve the meat I think you need to do so but if not do not worry about it. They are a problem and we need to control them. At least here in Texas.
 
Deep woods hunt

I would like to point one thing out. Super-Dave stated that he may be up to 5 hours away from his vehicle in a vast area. In my world, Thats quite a few miles into the woods. Is a Hog that lives that deep in the woods realy a threat to some farmers fence or a homeowners garden??? I dont think any pig will walk 5 hours to rip up a fence or schrubery. So is it realy etical to walk for 5 hours to kill something to let it rot that has proably never come close to a fence or garden???? I think were getting off point of how far in the woods this hunt may take place and everyone is thinking its gonna be in their back yard.
 
I would like to point one thing out. Super-Dave stated that he may be up to 5 hours away from his vehicle in a vast area. In my world, Thats quite a few miles into the woods. Is a Hog that lives that deep in the woods realy a threat to some
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You don't have to be "deep in the woods" to be 5 hours from your vehicle. One could easily be hunting next to fenced land the whole distance.
 
i and my siblings were raised to not kill it unless to eat it. exceptions being rodents destroying crop lands. that being said, my 12 yr. old nephew, which is a hunting machine, cannot eat meat as the result of PKU , which is a medical condition. we`ve had several conversations about hunting ethics and i`m very proud to say that he will not shoot something unless he`s made arrangement for someone to eat it. i mself do a lot of trophy hunting. the meat will always be eaten. to you guys out west with pig problem. we don`t have that here but watch alot of shows on massive distruction the pigs cause. isn`t there some kinda shelter or state funded org. that will take meat to feed people. if not, i`d sure want to know why if i lived there , as part of your tax $`s goes towards feeding less fortunate. we have crop damage permits here to let farmers shoot deer and they can keep meat or donate to feed the hungry.IMO, seems thats better than letting it go to waste.
 
A little hog biology will help a few out. They can and do travel many miles over the course of a week. They are often in separated packs. The boars will often be run off from the sows and little ones.
To be 5 hours from my truck is quite possible and I may have never been more than 20 yards from a crop. Due to excessively wet/dry weather I may not get to drive to the kill.
I have left a few pigs in the woods but try not to. It ain't about morals or ethics it is more important... I don't want the hunt gods to poop in my freezer. I don't break fishing rules cuz I don't want the fish gods crapping in there either...:o:D
Now I do insist that running hog dogs be it for fun or to help out a land owner is a "SPORT" and an EXTREME one too... But I do not liken it to "sport hunting" as referring to deer or other game. The hunt is an ambition but the dead animal is the trophy... In hog doggin' the removal of a pest is a trophy but so is getting it done without too much damage to dogs or injury to us humans.
I have no experience as a trophy hunter of any other game animals. If junior don't want the small game I hunt than it goes to dogs as a treat...
Brent
 
I belive in eating/using what you kill. Hunting for sport is ok if you plan to use the meat from your trophy, but I have no respect at all for those who hunt only for antlers or a head to hang on the wall. Im my mind, hunters who hunt for sport only are only slightly higher than those who fight dogs for sport.
 
ummm i dont thinking eating cyotes sounds that good.......isnt there some animals that should just be exterminated as pests?
 
I belive in eating/using what you kill. Hunting for sport is ok if you plan to use the meat from your trophy, but I have no respect at all for those who hunt only for antlers or a head to hang on the wall. Im my mind, hunters who hunt for sport only are only slightly higher than those who fight dogs for sport.
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For someone who makes such pungent comments, you could use some education where hunting is concerned.

We don't all live in the same part of the country. For some, deer hunting is about planning ones vacation and envolves quite a trip.

Some can knock off a deer from their front porch at their leisure. That's not hunting. That's selecting meat for the freezer.

I hunt because I can spend days high on a mountain where I can see a town 70 miles away (on a clear day) while looking for a big old buck who's past his prime, bred with his share of the does, and is living a solitary life on borrowed time.

If I'm successful, I'm going to have to make it back to camp, wait for friends, and then spend a full day packing him out while my friends give up a day of hunting time.

I'm not interested in knocking off the first forked horn that comes by. I'm more interested in seeing canyons I haven't visited before, hunting ridges where I haven't been and seeing lots of new country. Finding that big old buck is secondary. If I'm successful, every bit of that meat will be eaten, though not all of it by me.

Getting a little tired of the self righteous meat hunters who want to fill the pot and condemn those who actually enjoy the out of doors and use hunting as a way to do it.

As for the those pure meat hunters who aren't self righteous and condemning of others, I have no quarrel with you.

"Slightly higher than those who fight dogs for sport" ?
I think that falls into the category of the self righteous.:cool:
 
I'm a meat hunter and I try to be a good steward of this good Earth we live on. Has I see it hogs and coyotes are vermin where I live. If you can use parts of the carcass after killing them, great, if not the worms and buzzards will enjoy the gift you've given them. The Earth doesn't waste anything.
 
Meat hunters

I to think there are a handful of folkes commenting on this thread that seam to be a little self righteous. Until you walk in the shoes of others you should not judge.

If we are speaking strictly of HOGS then you all who are slinging the arrows need to do some research. Just because the hogs are 5 miles away does not mean they are not destructive.

You obviously do not live in Texas and have not experienced the destruction they cause. If you had cattle that have been affected or crops that have been destroyed or what ever else then perhaps you would have a different opinion...maybe not but before you sling arrows you should do a better job researching the topic.

As for those "HUNTERS" who hunt just to kill...I have no use what so ever for them. They give hunters who do hunt with a since of morality and ethics a bad name. :barf:
 
Deerhunter61, Every state in the country has a "problem animal". But does this mean we should have a no holds barred hunt on them?? I think not because every "problem animal has a purpose for what it does. No, I dont live in Texas but have you lived in N.J.and seen the problems we face with our wildlife issues? We have alot of animals out of controll and its going to stay that way like it is with the hogs because we wont ever be able to control the population unless everyone in the state hunted. That being said, I think we should try to be ethical sportsman and women and do our part in respecting the animals we harvest instead of shooting them and letting them rot because they may or may not tear up farmer jones fence. Just think of all the people that would be out of a job if there werent animals trashing stuff. And as far as judging goes, You should not ask advice of others in public what to do if you dont want some comments that you may or may not like. This is the reason people ask questions. To get the response of others that want to reply and state how they feel on the issue at hand. And I also lose alot of livestock every year because of wild animals. So yes, I know this first hand and have done my homework many times over but I still dont kill for the thrill.
Theres too many hungry people around here to waste food and im sure there are down there also..
 
mikenbarb

You obviously only read what you want to read and see what you want to see. No one and most of all me said anything about killing for the thrill of it and in fact if you would read the entire response I made before you would have seen that I in fact addressed this issue. Still most people, I am sure you are not one of these people, would not think twice about stepping on a cockroach, ant, killing a wasp, rat, or some other creature that would potentially do them harm. Now I am sure that if I went to your home you would be entertaining all of the above because to do otherwise would be repulsive.

We obviously see things a little differently. I have no problem if you choose to live the way you do...but to judge others as you have and say they have no ethics or morality because they choose to TRY to remove a troublesome animal and hopefully avoid destruction of their property all because of the ethics you espouse too seems a little much to me. Your response that you/we can never overcome them so we should just stand by and allow them to destroy propery does not make a bit of sense to me.

I wonder about a person who would put their "hunting ethics" above helping a neighbor with a problem with a pest or varmit that destroys his propery. It is obvious your "morality" means more to you than the neighbor.

You and I can I am sure go on and on and on about this and it is very obvious to me that in the end we will be no better off than we are right now. So I say farewell on this issue. I hope and pray you never have to deal with the destruction these or other animals cause because if you can not eat them you will have to move out and find another place to live.:D
 
I'm not truly concerned about what MnB thinks of me.
They don't understand.
They aren't interested that crops are planted, for livestock feed or otherwise.
They don't understand how little rain we get west of the Mississippi River.
How alkaline the soil is, and full of limestones (some of which are bigger than houses).
How only one third of the land can be economically cleared and leveled for grain.
How uncultured land can support one cow for every ten acres, and planted fields can support one cow for two acres. (providing for water as well)
(NOTE: These numbers are without feral pigs)

They don't understand that the pigs we control still eat up half of the resources. (what would they do if we let them be?)
They ignore that pigs kill and eat livestock as well.
They are unaware that pigs adopt orphans. (killing a sow does not sentence the piglets to starvation)
All of this, and I haven't even discussed the danger to people physically.
Or, a swines reproductive capabilities.
Or even the devastation to native wildlife. (quail, turkey and deer)

I offered to show them first hand, and was ignored.
I will still get pics, but you can see some of it in pics I have posted.

Here is the full story...


(Our Second Pig Mafia)

PS. Take a wild guess as to why ATTT has that elevated 'bed' on his truck.
 
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Deerhunter, My appology. I should have directed that statement different and it wasnt all directed to you. It was directed to the ones that just shoot and let lay. And I did not say to just stand by and let them do damage, I said we should do it ethically. And as far as destructive animals, I deal with livestock loss every week or month due to issues with wildlife. I try to eliminate the problem and when I do, The meat goes to good use. And I never said I would not help anyone if they had a problem with animal damage. I just stated that I would not let an edible game animal rot. And as far as judging others, I simply stated my ethics and morals and stated how I feel. I stated what my morals are and at no time did I direct towards or accuse a specific person that they had low morals or ethics. It is my own opinion. And I didnt state that a person has bad morals or ethics for trying to remove problem animals and im all for it. I just think its bad ethics to shoot a game animal that can be eaten and let it lay and rot and moraly I couldnt do that. Everyone has different morals and ethics than others and thats why we are individuals. My biggest question is if theres that big of a problem down there, Why dont all of the private property and ranch owners open up their land to the public for hog hunting without charging a fee? I Would love to come down and do some hog hunting for free and take home as much as my coolers could hold. And I got lots of big coolers.
Again my appology Deerhunter61, and no offense meant. I am simply stating how I feel with my morals and standards and my previous reply was not all directed at you.
And Yithian, I do understand what their dealing with. I am a livestock farmer myself and deal with these issues every day of the year. And I never said to let them be. Im just saying that the meat from the hogs should be put to good use. If you cant raise cows with all the problems from pigs,conditions,etc. why not eat pork? I understand you cant eat all of them but there has to be some kind of program down there for helping the hungry. If not, you should think of starting one with the agencies in the area. Alot of people would be grateful.
 
Mikenbarb

Thanks for the response and your apology is accepted. I wish I had the answer as to why the land owners here do not want hunters to come and assist. Perhaps I can provide some of the answers. Maybe some Texas land owners will respond and let me know if I am on track here. I believe land owners are more afraid of hunters they do not personally know and the damage they can do than they are of the hogs. Sad that we are at a place in our society when that is the case but unfortunately the very things you have brought up, Morality and Ethics are probably the same reason these land owners do not want people they do not know coming on their land to assist in ridding them of the hogs.

I hunted for years on public land here in Texas and this coming year will be the first time in quite a few years that I will be hunting on a lease...simply because of the cost and also the misrepresentation of leases I have paid for in the past and I can tell you a lot of the people in the woods especially on public land have little to no ethics. I quit hunting the first two weeks of the season for this very reason when hunting public land. Simply to dangerous. I am fortunate that Texas deer hunting runs from the first weekend of November through the first weekend of January.

Now before someone takes aim at me for pointing out the lack of ethics of some of the public hunters I have encountered here in Texas and takes offense let me say I know there are a lot of Texas hunters who do have ethics and morality, more do than don't I am sure but the ones who do not are the issue here and they are the reason for the issues mentioned above. It only takes one to create that perception and it is unfortunate but perception is reality to the one with the perception.

I think we have turned this into a new thread...
 
For someone who makes such pungent comments, you could use some education where hunting is concerned.
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I've been hunting for 20 years. I'm also a Forest Ranger. I'm pretty sure my hunting and wildlife education is up to snuff.

hunt because I can spend days high on a mountain where I can see a town 70 miles away (on a clear day) while looking for a big old buck who's past his prime, bred with his share of the does, and is living a solitary life on borrowed time.
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I agree with you. Thats one of the best parts of hunting.

Getting a little tired of the self righteous meat hunters who want to fill the pot and condemn those who actually enjoy the out of doors and use hunting as a way to do it.
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:confused:
Did I say there was anything wrong with enjoying hunting? No, I didnt. I said I didnt like folks who kill a deer, cut off the antlers, and leave the carcass for the buzzards.

Slightly higher than those who fight dogs for sport" ?
I think that falls into the category of the self righteous
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Ever been walking through the woods and found 3 or 4 half-rotted bucks in a pile, their antlers cut off and the rest half eaten by buzzards and wild dogs? I have. I see this a dozen times every hunting season. (And often a few weeks after hunting season too) These deer are killed by people who only value antlers and have no intentions of using the meat. They kill for the fun of watching something die, then bragging to their buddies. Do you think that this is more sporting than fighting dogs?

Mabey you live in a pace where all hunters are honest folk who are good stewards of the land who take game ethically and make an effort to use the meat. Id like to live in such a place myself. Unforunately I dont, and I have to call it like I see it.
 
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