Hunter dies after his stand is pulled down...

[Gbro]

SRKAV.......

Straight form the Minnesota Hand book about public land.

Elevated Stands: A person may not construct, occupy, or use any
elevated scaffold or other elevated device for the purpose of hunting,
watching, or killing wild animals, except that portable stands may be
used if they are removed each day at the close of hunting hours and
do no permanent damage.

You need to look at pages 70 & 71 and also page 112 in the hand book you are quoting from.

STATE FORESTS
State forest lands are generally open for hunting and .......
Elevated Stands
The use of portable tree stands is "RECOMENDED". especially those which can be secured without driving nails into trees............
Any Permanent unoccupied stand or blind on public land is public and not the property of the person who constructed the stand from page 112

Elevated Stands
No person may take deer from a constructed platform or other structure that is higher than 16 feet. This restruiction does not include or apply to a portable stand that is........

It goes on to list only portables can be used in scientific and natural areas that are open to hunting.

Yes we can use Permenent stands on public property except where restricted like Cass County public land and National Forests.
There is vast amounts of public County lands out there without restrictions to portable stands.

You have to read the whole rule book to understand all the different restrictions. Again pages 70 & 71 and 112.

 

[srkavanagh6621]

Good thing I moved to the great state of South Dakota I guess! I know when I did live in Minnesota all the public land around were I hunted it was illegal to build a stand! thats why I thought all were so you are right my apologizes.

 

[deathrider]

my area is Virginia, as for our local police, well where land was, the law was corrupt! A few years ago the sherrif of 45 years was finally arrested along with around a dozen of his deputies. where I actually live is peaceful & in a different area & low crime.

as for my rural land. let me give a huge tease, 6 to 8 or so miles from it is an area so bad for crime it once made the cover of US News & world reports, & has been mentioned several times since, the population was around "700" yes 700 residents in the whole area, but crime was worse than in any major city, in old days when a murder happened they were not notified until body was cold, & no one ever saw anything. people walking the rural country roads would throw molative coctails for fun at cars, especially if you was caucasion, or shoot at cars, I stayed away, I think they started cleaning the area up in 96 or there abouts, I didnt look it up tonight & I am going by memory, but if anyone is real curious I will google it & give some links.

the area was originally inhabitated by released slaves it was called "log town" for the log homes that once existed from the poverty, but now it is called sandy level, & then their decendents became gang wannabees, & tried to rule that particular area, but not where my land was, just their tiny section.

some parts of Virginia are great, other parts are bad, & a few places are not fit for humans. there isnt enough money in the world for me to travel through that area unarmed, even though today it isnt real bad? I know what it once was.

I have for many years been saying I want to write a book about rednecks, to compete with Jeff foxworthy, but unlike Jeff, I actually want documented actual photographs, & not a bunch of make believe jokes. for where I live most roads near me I could take some whopper pics if I ever get a wild hair. & especially where wife used to live, in redneck central.

Randy

 

[woodguru]

People who live in cities and more refined areas are sheltered from knowing what remote rural can be, and more importantly what trashy people consider fair conduct with other's property.

It's hard to imagine telling someone to get off your property and being threatened and told to go take a flying ####. Things can escalate real quick and a moments lapse could easily get you killed.

 

[1911rocks]

Rural Living and trespassers

Rural living requires some sacrifices. LEOs are slow in responding. In my case 30min - 1hr. Just forget EMS and Fire Services. The maintenance on the property is substantial. It took me & my Wife, together 6-9hrs to mow grass, 6hrs without trimming. Bush hogging the fence lines and borders took 8hrs. in addition to the mowing. There was no municipal/county/state snow removal. There's the need and cost associated with the equipment for the above (Tractor, implements, two Dixie Choppers) The Building PMs alone took forever. Well, Septic Tank, Dam on the lake. I raised livestock and the care of the animals was in addition to all of the above everyday...I need a break just thinking about it.
Then the Trespassers! I had Hunters, Fisherman, and Hikers. One Summer I had a Trespassing Fisherman drown after he and his (2) sons scaled my 6' high Chain Link Fence. The fence had "No Trespassing" signs posted every 50' (Bi-Lingual) His family then tried to sue us!! We prevailed, but, it still cost me ~$2500.00 in time off and attorney fees. I live in the 'burbs now and never regret the move. The earlier poster who commented that Trespassers are just Thieves is absolutely right!! If I lived in a truly remote area like in some portions on Montana, Arizona, etc. and I had the same Rural environment I had before I'd have to add the cost of a Back Hoe attachment and Claymores to the O&M cost. Then Trespasser disposal would be part of my daily chores as well.

 

[sc928porsche]

Hummmmmmmmm Killing over trespassing.........When governments do it, its called war. The winner usually decides who's right. This is not to say that I condone any of it. Just a statement of fact.

 

[MLeake]

sc928porsche,

What is it called when governments kill over attacks on the citizenry?

Or, to translate, at the government level self defense is also war - so what is your point?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I guess that disproves the "Armed society is a polite society" theory.

I'd been wondering that myself.

Contrary to the characters of a fictional book or a group by that name, the only reason why people in an armed society would be more polite is out of fear that peaved off one of their fellow members will result in them getting shot. The notion that being in possession of a gun will somehow change an individual's manners is at best naive. A material object isn't going to make a person a better person in society. They are the same person they were, only armed. TVs, vehicles, knives, swords, or even other weaponry hasn't even resulted in society getting more polite.

What seems to make some gun owners more polite is knowing that their permits to carry can so easily be yanked for fairly minor issues. For folks bent on breaking the law, they could not care less.

 

[A_Gamehog]

1911rocks,

and if I had the same Rural environment I had before I'd have to add the cost of a Back Hoe attachment and Claymores to the O&M cost. Then Trespasser disposal would be part of my daily chores as well.

You should be in charge of our borders!

well said

 

[sixgun67]

Where our land is located, there is no such thing as 'accidental tresspass'. Every January and June, the four of us guys that lease our land, have to refresh our no tresspassing signs. We have bright yellow signs less than 50 feet apart, around the entire property line. If you are on our property, ANYWHERE, you have walked within a maximum of 25 feet of a clearly visible posted sign to get there. No way otherwise.

3 months ago, we found a car on one of our trails. An old beater, 3 or 4 hundred dollar car, with a flat tire. They didn't come thru any of our gates, they cut some trees to get there and joyride on our trails. Idiots, when the car blew the tire, (trails are rough sometimes) They abandoned it. We called sheriff, who came out and looked it over and said nothing he could do, but that the car was OURS as far as he was concerned, to do with as we pleased. Title was in the trunk, names and dates of purchase. It will be hauled off for a couple hundred dollars of scrap money, to buy some more posted signs.

It is never ending. Close up one hole that they come in from, and they move down the line and open up another. It is always a game of being one step behind the others. This is only a 150 acre lease--but who wants to walk the perimeter twice a year putting up signs that were torn down, to fight a never ending battle?

25 or more years ago, my dad and I found a treestand on our property. We waited for the first day of season, and in the dark, went to the stand. Dad stood 30 or so feet away in the darkness, and I climbed into the stand, waiting for the tresspasser. Little later, here comes a flashlight in the distance. He gets to the tree, and looks up and sees me and tells me I'm tresspassing in his stand. I ask him who gave him permission to be on OUR land, he gives a name that obviously is a lie, and I told him he's wrong--he's over 100 yards on our side of the property line. He starts to get irate when out of the darkness, dad speaks up and says to get off the property right now and never come back. That was all it took, a second voice coming from out in the dark, and he decided to leave. No more argument.

sixgun

 

[woodguru]

I know a guy right here in Eldorado County that had a long private road he keeps a chain across. At one point he had a sign that said trespassers will be shot. The sheriff told him he had to take that down, he laughed and told him he didn't think it was fair not to warn someone before you shoot them, and added, allright, whatever, I have a backhoe and 40 acres. Bottom line is the guy grows pot, he invests a lot of money on all the right fertilizers and water PH balancers and works harder than most do on a full time job. Trespassers are those looking to steal his hard work and he has an attitude about that. It's thieves we are talking about no matter what it is the property owner is doing. It would be the same if he was growing legitimate ginseng with a high harvest value. Actually this guy stays within the boundaries of 20 plants so he doesn't get messed with by authorities, he's had the sheriff dept out inspecting his operation to make sure he isn't over the semi legal limits.

I don't agree with indiscriminate things like claymores, you have to have a visual on em.

I'll give you an example of protecting your property. My friend overheard a local sleazebag talking to a friend in a bar. He had been in my house doing drywall for the company I hired. He was talking to someone about the sheer raw value of some of the stuff I had in my house and the haul that could be made ripping me off.

The guy he was talking to told him he was idiotic even talking about it, he said Keith would kill anyone involved with touching his stuff, and added he has some of the baddest guns you've ever seen and knows how to use them. My friend told me that the underground word on messing with my stuff was that it was sheer suicide, that I'm totally psychotic. Most other people would have been ripped multiple times once the word was out that there was $400k worth of stereo equipment along with hundreds of thousands in coins and gems, and a bonus of some of the finer guns in the county. Getting ripped off in a small community is usually by someone with knowledge, preventing it is instilling fear of consequences that overcomes the greed of taking something that's not yours because you think you can get away with it.

 

[markj]

but hearing the troubles you go through is enough to give second thoughts.

Isnt that bad here in Iowa, kid gets picked up and dropped off at the end of the driveway for school. No neighbor mowing at 6:00am (had this happen 3 times a week by this guy the short time I lived in city). I can go out on my deck and hear the birds tweet, no sounds of cars, buses, or gangbangers. Neighbors all know each other and help out, we all get together often and socialize at the fire station when we have pancake feeds. I can raise steers and pigs for my pwn consumption and to sell. Have a 60 ft barn I have old classic cars in, some are being restored by me and my son.

We ride our dirt bikes and atvs, horses, snowmobiles.

Totally unlike city living.

 

[woodguru]

I Have The Answer To Treestands

My wife and I were talking about this and what we would do if someone trespassed on our four acre house and property. She has no problem with the fact that I am going to have one heck of an attitude and the guy or guys would be rudely asked to leave.

We got to talking about how you'd handle it on a much larger property that possibly isn't your residence so you aren't around all the time.

Someone builds a stand in one of your trees. You carefully word a sign to put in the stand, it sounds serious and matter of fact, no bluster and outrage.

While you are hunting I'm having my way with your vehicle.
When I'm done I am coming for you, the sheriff's department doesn't have the resources to handle illegal trespassing but they will come to take care of an unfortunate shooting incident.
See Ya!
I'll leave you alone if you are leaving my property when I do.

My wife thought it would actually be fun to watch to see how long a guy could sit there after reading that sign, it would be humorous.

 

[markj]

what we would do if someone trespassed on our four acre house and property

Heck you can see the other end of that get 150 or more then you will have a good time.

 

[woodguru]

The point I was making was that people can relate to the idea of someone trespassing on a little residential property because you just don't do that, but make it a few hundred or thousands of acres and it's all of a sudden alright to do what you want on it? Not to mention getting snotty when told to leave.

 

[k31]

me and a freind found a climber stand only 100yards from my back yard it was my father in laws land so i didnt want to get upset with them until i called him to see who he let back there very shortly after calling him i climbed it about 25 feet the poplar hugged the tree and slid my self down and left a note explaining property boundries and that my kids play in the back yard he was hunting over and the no trespassing signs he past on the way in
we didnt have any more problems from with the stand until i tried to take it down
i can see why he left it there it was a cheapo gorilla stand but i didnt have to buy it

 

[ritepath]

We had a small farm when I was growing up, and leased two adjacent farms to ours. I was always finding stands on both of these (owners lived in Florida and didn't give people permission to hunt). The easy thing for me was to just shoot them with a shotgun early in the season.

I remember one year after giving up a lease on one of the properties the guy that picked up the lease also started "renting" the property (The owner died, son took over) tried to run me off my own land. He come up to me I was about 75 yards deep into our property bow hunting in a stand. He come up to the stand and motioned for me to come down. So I did, leaving my bow up in the stand. He said "You know I don't allow hunting on this property right?" I responded. "Yeah, I'd say so considering you've been on my land since you crossed that fence." He never said another word just turned around and crossed the fence.

He seemed to have a problem with the fence, a few other times we had run ins with him. One ended up costing him 6000 bucks in damages and court costs. Once we ended up fencing in a camper he parked on our land. I suppose the fence was a little hard for him to realize it was there. But for some reason it kept the cattle in our property just fine.

 

[armoredman]

Lots of wild stories, NOT saying anyone is making this stuff up in any way shape or form! I have never tree stand hunted, (Southern AZ doesn't have trees high enough or sturdy enough!), and my hunting experiance is minimal, infintesimal, actually. If I was a landowner with these areas, and had resources, there are a few things I might try.
In the Middle Ages many different passive defenses were used around castles, other than the obvious moat. One good one was to bury large, and I mean BIG clay pots in the ground, so as a siege engine moving forward would cave it in and fall over forward. If it's your land, you would have the right to bury items, especially something non threatening like a clay pot on the land around your gates. Just make sure it's strong enough to let someone WALK over it. Leaving a dangerous booby trap on your land like claymores or nail filled boards, that's the type of thing that would probably get you wearing orange for life, not just hunting season, depending on your state laws. I would check carefully, just to be sure.
I wish all of the best of luck in ridding your lands of the unwanted!

 

[mdd]

Armoredman: At least in KS, any type of device or structure implemented for the specific purpose of damaging property or causing personal injury without the landowner's presence to monitor the event and provide specific warning is illegal and opens massive liability to said landowner. In other words, a wolf in sheep's clothes is still a wolf & a booby trap with soft/smooth edges is still a booby trap.

SIXGUN: My reason for posting is to address you specifically. I'm torn over your posts and with good reason which I'll try to relate in as non-confrontational manner as possible. So that you may understand my point of view let me state that my family & I all farm/ranch for a living. To put food in our children's mouths and keep a roof over our families at night, we tend to our land & cattle very carefully. We know quite well that meticulously sustaining & maintaining our land will allow us to continue the way of life we love for our lifetimes and beyond. I personally am walking the same land that my great-grandfather walked; a man whom I missed the privilege of meeting by nearly a decade. My family has farmed for as far back as I can find records and this way of life is in my blood deeper than you could ever understand. I know the disgust you speak of with your leased acreage because I could take you to any of a hundred places and show you evidence of the same disrespect although possibly not as brazen or destructive.
The difference is that you can never understand the deep-rooted ties to land that people like my family & I have. You refer to that leased acreage as "your" land and that feeling comes from the work you put into it and the pride you take it seeing it clean and well-kept. Imagine what it is like when land is your life & livelihood, not your getaway spot. When my family & I get together at Christmas time, our table will represent control of almost 35,000 acres of land across three counties. That land is our life.
Here comes the part you won't like. To people like me, people like you are a bigger enemy than drunks sneaking in & leaving beer cans. People like you are only interested in land for recreational use and have no concern over whether it "pencils" or not. You visit for a few weeks total out of the year and then go back to your life in the city. We in production agriculture cannot compete with the likes of you when it comes to purchasing land. We have to make it cash flow whereas you do not. Land for us is a necessity; for you, a luxury. We raise the grain and meat that feeds you and your children then you come buy the very land we rely on to provide you with the abundance of food you've all come to believe is a right. Oh surely a quarter section (160 acres) isn't going to matter, right? Wrong. When it's 1,000,000 of you leaving your city lives to buy luxury real estate across the rural areas of America, that adds up to real acres and real losses in production. I attended a land auction two years ago where we were outbid on a 490 acre parcel of cattle pasture. Our final bid was for half a million dollars. We have known the attorney bidding in proxy for many years and he apologized to us after the auction for bidding against us. A Texas oil man had hired him to buy the ground in his stead but never gave an upper price limit, only instructions to "buy it". There is no oil on that land whatsoever. It was bought so he could have a place to hunt when he felt the inkling. We can't compete with money like that. Mark my words that if this trend continues, one day you will find the shelves of your grocery store sparsely filled and what is available will be tremendously expensive. Look around your life & take note of how many of your necessities are really just luxuries and extravagances. How many things could you honestly live without and not miss more than in passing? A helluva lot. Four things you cannot live without are food, water, clothing, & shelter. Destroying agriculture takes away half of those and converting production acres to luxury acres destroys agriculture.
Please don't misunderstand me on this post. This is not a personal attack in any way because I can relate to your disdain for trespassers and vandals as well as anyone on this board. It sounds as though your leased acreage was practically waste ground before you and your friends intervened. Yours is not the type of land of which I speak; your kind IS that of which I speak. In your case, your money has improved a parcel of land. In most cases here, it simply takes away from my way of life & ability to produce your food.

 

[woodguru]

mdd....

I hear what you are saying, last year we looked at buying a 1200 acre working cattle ranch that had 800 attached acres of BLM land, 2000 total. The owner ran 700 head of feeders a year. It had 400 in alfalfa and 400 in irrigated pasture, 1800 feet of lake front, two houses, three barns, weigh shed, equipment shed, etc.

He was willing to come down to $1.6 million cash to the person who would buy it and lease back to him to keep doing what he'd done all his life.

Northern California that is a steal. The ground squirrels were so thick he charged hunters $120 a day to shoot as a side income.

For me I wanted a working situation to keep the place up so I could have a fantasic place to hunt that wasn't sitting empty, three rivers, jeep trails, it was a paradise. Tags for deer, elk, bear, and mountain lion were grandfathered into the property as owner.

My heart was breaking for this guy getting hammered by the economy to where he had come down from $4.5 million to a quarter of that. I had my wife convinced between our accountant and I that it was a win win for the rancher and us to have an ownership that allowed him the cash he had needed to operate as normal. We weren't ready to pony up that much cash and it didn't work for us to finance it for him. Next year I am going to see if he still has the property and make some kind of deal that keeps him on his ranch, he was in danger of losing it.

I know I sound like what you have a problem with but it was quite a bit different.