Hunter dies after his stand is pulled down...
- Thread starter Gbro
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I have made tree stands for years. Constructed from 1" steel tubing with expanded metal fold up floors. These are chained with 5/16" log chains and locked to the tree.
They have a seat that pivots up when not in use and also gets chained to the tree and locked in the non use position.
Confronting someone in a tree is easily resolved. I have "haul" ropes for my gear, I prove the keys unlock the tree stand chains and they always move on.
I could also weld my name on the bottom of the steel seat.
Has worked for years.
They have a seat that pivots up when not in use and also gets chained to the tree and locked in the non use position.
Confronting someone in a tree is easily resolved. I have "haul" ropes for my gear, I prove the keys unlock the tree stand chains and they always move on.
I could also weld my name on the bottom of the steel seat.
Has worked for years.
I also know the frustration of tresspassers. We have 4 ponds and one lake on our leased land. Land had been neglected for over 20 years with hunters, ATVs, fishermen, boaters and dog walkers. When my club contacted the landowner and leased it, the locals put up a rather strong opposition to us 'rich city lawyers that always come here to take our land'. We are none of that, we are just regular guys.
Landowner agreed on condition that we put up steel gates on all the trails, clean up the tresspasser's garbage, and not cut any trees. AND, keep liability insurance on the property.
We started catching tresspassers immediately, but there were also the confrontational die-hards that argued with us. Five years later, we are still catching people, tho not nearly the same quantity. They tear our signs down, they pattern us so that they can come whenever we aren't there. They launch boats and have stolen a johnboat from us. They have torn down our game cameras and busted them--we caught them and made them pay for that. They build campfires for camping and the list just keeps going. We do confront them, and give them the option of walking out or being hauled out by the sheriff.
In our case, the land is bordered by one guy who kinda serves as a lookout for the tresspassers. When they get vehicles stuck, he takes his tractor and pulls them out, and otherwise helps them, not us.
Sixgun
It is a very tough thing to do. All we want is the land we pay for, to ourselves.
Landowner agreed on condition that we put up steel gates on all the trails, clean up the tresspasser's garbage, and not cut any trees. AND, keep liability insurance on the property.
We started catching tresspassers immediately, but there were also the confrontational die-hards that argued with us. Five years later, we are still catching people, tho not nearly the same quantity. They tear our signs down, they pattern us so that they can come whenever we aren't there. They launch boats and have stolen a johnboat from us. They have torn down our game cameras and busted them--we caught them and made them pay for that. They build campfires for camping and the list just keeps going. We do confront them, and give them the option of walking out or being hauled out by the sheriff.
In our case, the land is bordered by one guy who kinda serves as a lookout for the tresspassers. When they get vehicles stuck, he takes his tractor and pulls them out, and otherwise helps them, not us.
Sixgun
It is a very tough thing to do. All we want is the land we pay for, to ourselves.
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srkavanagh6621
New member
I would just get them for trespassing! A large fine and and the loss of their hunting license for a year should make them learn quick! I think recently trespassing has been a much bigger deal with more and more people going on others land! i know around here recently we have caught a few people trying to walk our private land becuase they saw a big deer in there! Ya right its private for a reason! some people these days dont have any respect for anything or people and give good respectable hunters a bad name and ruin the privilege to hunt some private land for everybody!
No, the defendant, Kevin Thomas McCormick, 51, of Breezy Point (Brainerd Lakes Area, about 125 miles south of the Bagley area where this occurred)
Well this stand sure seems to be a portable ladder stand by the way the story reads, although I may be mistaken on that,
But Yes a permanent stand can still be used on public property in many places in Minnesota. The rules are no higher than 16 feet. You probably made that assumption about permanent stands from the story about my encounter with hunters in our stands on opening morning 35 + - <> years ago, when we were only allowed a 6 foot high stand but could even erect them on National Forrest lands. There are some county's like Cass that restrict stands to portables only but State forests only encourage the use of portables and anything big has to be removed after so many days.
Also many corporate leases restrict permanent stands, Like Potlatch Corp.
And this happened in the early hours of the day!
From this additional news story,
A friend of mine had a dispute over a locked gate on a road used to access public land where the land owner had given him permition to use(the road) but had failed to tell the other neighbors who put up the gate to limit access into said public land. This road was a driveway that wasn't declared a right of way or easement so it got heated until the land owner could be contacted.
srkavanagh6621
New member
Straight form the Minnesota Hand book about public land.
Elevated Stands: A person may not construct, occupy, or use any
elevated scaffold or other elevated device for the purpose of hunting,
watching, or killing wild animals, except that portable stands may be
used if they are removed each day at the close of hunting hours and
do no permanent damage.
Prior to the opening day of archery deer
season, portable stands may be left overnight in a wildlife
management area by a person with a valid bear license who is
hunting within 100 yards of a bear bait site that is legally tagged
and registered. The stand must have affixed the person’s name and
address to the stand in such a manner that it can be read from the
ground.
So just so ya know its a little off topic but you must not build a permanent stand on public land, yes maybe you could classify a ladder stand as not permanent but I known I wouldn't wanna lug one around back and forth.
Elevated Stands: A person may not construct, occupy, or use any
elevated scaffold or other elevated device for the purpose of hunting,
watching, or killing wild animals, except that portable stands may be
used if they are removed each day at the close of hunting hours and
do no permanent damage.
Prior to the opening day of archery deer
season, portable stands may be left overnight in a wildlife
management area by a person with a valid bear license who is
hunting within 100 yards of a bear bait site that is legally tagged
and registered. The stand must have affixed the person’s name and
address to the stand in such a manner that it can be read from the
ground.
So just so ya know its a little off topic but you must not build a permanent stand on public land, yes maybe you could classify a ladder stand as not permanent but I known I wouldn't wanna lug one around back and forth.
Interesting Sides Here...
This is really interesting to see the side of those who own acreage that makes excellent hunting and those who don't but want to use it.
I get pretty darn territorial about my property, be it 1 acre, 4 acres, or 500 acres.
Most could relate to their house whether they own or rent, you have a yard, usually front and back. If you came out to investigate the sound of an ATV and found some clown hauling in building supplies to make a stand in a tree in your backyard you are going to be one ****** off confrontational dude. There is absolutely no difference if it's a hundred or a thousand acres, it's private land, it's yours, and it's your right to keep it untouched and pristine if that's the way you want it to be.
I grew up surrounded by ranches and mountain property as big as 20 and 30 thousand acres. Where I grew up you didn't just go on someone's property without asking for permission. Most land owners will allow people on their land who show them the proper respect and regard for the fact that they own the property and it is their right to keep people off if they choose to. This shows the landowner that you are responsible and respectful.
The kind of people who would not only trespass in disregard of posted private property but would go farther than that with ATV's and building hunting clubs in the trees are disrespectful pigs. Disrespectful pigs shoot cows and think if they can get away with building a stand they have the "right" to do anything. I know ranchers using BLM land that deal with cows being shot every year. Some get cut up and quartered with a chainsaw for the meat and others get shot because they can be and a couple of steaks get cut off to cook by a fire. The kind of person who would do that deserves whatever works best to deal with it. The areas I have in mind you couldn't get law enforcement into, it's too much of a wild west situation, they are literally afraid of being shot by people who have a total disregard for the law.
Say a piece of private property is big enough that several parties have built tree stands, and it gets into disputes over them that results in people getting shot. Guess who gets sued for the unruliness? The landowner, that's who. Their homeowner's insurance is a big target for liability and that's who will get sued, not maybe, will be.
If a nice respectul guy comes to me and asks to hunt on my property it's going to come down to if he can hunt without an ATV, without building a stand, and without leaving any signs behind that he was there such as trash. I see someone in a stand that they built without my permission I'm going to tell him under no uncertain terms that he is to be off my property or the sheriff is going to handle it from there. I'm going to be carrying a knarly sniper caliber rifle and point out what a great target they are sitting alone in that tree. It would be very hard to enjoy hunting feeling like you are a target.
Coming back to check and he's still there it's hard to say whether I'd leave and go get a sheriff or escort the guy to the edge of my property walking behind him. I'm definitely an escort him off the property sort of guy, some people you argue with, some you don't. I know if a guy has an ATV on my property I'm not even going to talk to him I'm going to get the sheriff.
Go back to that scenario of someone taking over your backyard in a residential neighborhood and see how that would leave you feeling before getting judgemental about a landowner getting territorial about his personal property, it's no different.
Added as an afterthought:
What I guess I was trying to say is that I wouldn't dare go on privately held posted land. I have known a lot of people including myself who are ranch owners, and I would feel a huge liklihood of simply getting shot and disappearing, my skin crawls when trespassing because in my world that has been the way it is, nothing else but the way it is. People post large land holdings within 60 miles of here because they have pot operations and they will shoot and disappear trespassers because there is a lot of money involved.
I guess it's different back east but I'll bet there's the same thing going on in parts of Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, etc. I came upon a still in Arkansas in private woods and I'm pretty sure those guys would have shot me if I hadn't run faster and hidden well. Trespassing is trespassing and things happen to those breaking the law in the first place.
This is really interesting to see the side of those who own acreage that makes excellent hunting and those who don't but want to use it.
I get pretty darn territorial about my property, be it 1 acre, 4 acres, or 500 acres.
Most could relate to their house whether they own or rent, you have a yard, usually front and back. If you came out to investigate the sound of an ATV and found some clown hauling in building supplies to make a stand in a tree in your backyard you are going to be one ****** off confrontational dude. There is absolutely no difference if it's a hundred or a thousand acres, it's private land, it's yours, and it's your right to keep it untouched and pristine if that's the way you want it to be.
I grew up surrounded by ranches and mountain property as big as 20 and 30 thousand acres. Where I grew up you didn't just go on someone's property without asking for permission. Most land owners will allow people on their land who show them the proper respect and regard for the fact that they own the property and it is their right to keep people off if they choose to. This shows the landowner that you are responsible and respectful.
The kind of people who would not only trespass in disregard of posted private property but would go farther than that with ATV's and building hunting clubs in the trees are disrespectful pigs. Disrespectful pigs shoot cows and think if they can get away with building a stand they have the "right" to do anything. I know ranchers using BLM land that deal with cows being shot every year. Some get cut up and quartered with a chainsaw for the meat and others get shot because they can be and a couple of steaks get cut off to cook by a fire. The kind of person who would do that deserves whatever works best to deal with it. The areas I have in mind you couldn't get law enforcement into, it's too much of a wild west situation, they are literally afraid of being shot by people who have a total disregard for the law.
Say a piece of private property is big enough that several parties have built tree stands, and it gets into disputes over them that results in people getting shot. Guess who gets sued for the unruliness? The landowner, that's who. Their homeowner's insurance is a big target for liability and that's who will get sued, not maybe, will be.
If a nice respectul guy comes to me and asks to hunt on my property it's going to come down to if he can hunt without an ATV, without building a stand, and without leaving any signs behind that he was there such as trash. I see someone in a stand that they built without my permission I'm going to tell him under no uncertain terms that he is to be off my property or the sheriff is going to handle it from there. I'm going to be carrying a knarly sniper caliber rifle and point out what a great target they are sitting alone in that tree. It would be very hard to enjoy hunting feeling like you are a target.
Coming back to check and he's still there it's hard to say whether I'd leave and go get a sheriff or escort the guy to the edge of my property walking behind him. I'm definitely an escort him off the property sort of guy, some people you argue with, some you don't. I know if a guy has an ATV on my property I'm not even going to talk to him I'm going to get the sheriff.Go back to that scenario of someone taking over your backyard in a residential neighborhood and see how that would leave you feeling before getting judgemental about a landowner getting territorial about his personal property, it's no different.
Added as an afterthought:
What I guess I was trying to say is that I wouldn't dare go on privately held posted land. I have known a lot of people including myself who are ranch owners, and I would feel a huge liklihood of simply getting shot and disappearing, my skin crawls when trespassing because in my world that has been the way it is, nothing else but the way it is. People post large land holdings within 60 miles of here because they have pot operations and they will shoot and disappear trespassers because there is a lot of money involved.
I guess it's different back east but I'll bet there's the same thing going on in parts of Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, etc. I came upon a still in Arkansas in private woods and I'm pretty sure those guys would have shot me if I hadn't run faster and hidden well. Trespassing is trespassing and things happen to those breaking the law in the first place.
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LateNightFlight
New member
Man, you guys that have problems with guys building stands on your property are living the good life! Our trespassers and poachers just hunt out of our stands, then steal them.
The other ones that annoy the hell out of me are the guys that don't actually enter the property. They just sit in their trucks out on the road, overlooking a patch of pasture with a plan to shoot, and then hope to drag a deer out before anyone can get to them. This is how they start. This is the gateway to the actual trespassing and theft. Never mind their trajectory from that position goes straight into a stand just down the hill, just inside the tree line. If you approach them, (and by approach, I mean sneak up on them before they can take off,) they always have a half baked excuse for sitting there staring at a patch of pasture with a rifle on their lap. "Right pal. You and every body else seems to wind up right here with a rifle on their lap as they wait for their wife to come show them where her great aunt's farm is. Good story. If I wait here with you, how many weeks will we be here before your wife shows up? Don't worry; you're not going to have to wait that long. There's a deputy on the way to help you with directions."
You wouldn't believe how many of these guys turn out to be felons in possession of a weapon - or have a stolen gun from a recent burglary – or are over the limit to even sit behind the wheel - or have warrants! "Adios moron! Enjoy your three squares and a card game with your fellow imbeciles in the day room!"
The other ones that annoy the hell out of me are the guys that don't actually enter the property. They just sit in their trucks out on the road, overlooking a patch of pasture with a plan to shoot, and then hope to drag a deer out before anyone can get to them. This is how they start. This is the gateway to the actual trespassing and theft. Never mind their trajectory from that position goes straight into a stand just down the hill, just inside the tree line. If you approach them, (and by approach, I mean sneak up on them before they can take off,) they always have a half baked excuse for sitting there staring at a patch of pasture with a rifle on their lap. "Right pal. You and every body else seems to wind up right here with a rifle on their lap as they wait for their wife to come show them where her great aunt's farm is. Good story. If I wait here with you, how many weeks will we be here before your wife shows up? Don't worry; you're not going to have to wait that long. There's a deputy on the way to help you with directions."
You wouldn't believe how many of these guys turn out to be felons in possession of a weapon - or have a stolen gun from a recent burglary – or are over the limit to even sit behind the wheel - or have warrants! "Adios moron! Enjoy your three squares and a card game with your fellow imbeciles in the day room!"
It seems today the hunter does not have to fear the hunted wild, but the wild hunters (and landowners). Something appears amiss. I can't imagine spending the rest of my life in a concrete cell with hardened criminals, because I got ****** someone was in my tree stand and I chose to do some stupid, immature act. But that's just me.
Trespassers are very brazen in other ways. I have a buddy in the mountains of NC who has recurring problems with ginseng poachers. These guys are usually armed, and have driven 4x4's around his locked gate to access the property.
I don't consider myself bloodthirsty, but as a juror I would nullify any case against a property owner who shot an armed trespasser, or harmed him in some other way when the armed trespasser refused to leave.
Property rights mean nothing, otherwise.
I don't consider myself bloodthirsty, but as a juror I would nullify any case against a property owner who shot an armed trespasser, or harmed him in some other way when the armed trespasser refused to leave.
Property rights mean nothing, otherwise.
Immature act?
Doesn't the immaturity start with the criminal act of trespassing, not to mention blatant disregard for someone else's property?
There is a disconnect here between those who have and those who don't respect that it is owned by someone else.
I had a phenomenal deer on my property, I had guys offering me thousands of dollars to shoot it, the highest being $5000 (and he even added "okay, how much?). I refused it as was my right. The arguments were that they could shoot it from my property line, it's going to leave your property and get shot anyway might as well be me, You don't own the deer, etc. etc. I told the guy that thought he could shoot it from the road and come on the property to get it that that would be a massive mistake.
The crime starts (it is a criminal act to trespass on private property) with trespassing. It's a mistake to defend, allow for, and look the other way when another person's rights and property are being violated. Start the defense and feeling sorry for the one who's property is violated, not the idiot who can't be bothered with laws.
MLeake
What trespassers will do is unbelievable. I knew a guy who was checking on a big piece of property because people had been camping on it, they were making a mess cutting trees in the way of where they wanted to be.
He hears chainsaws and goes to see they are felling big trees and splitting it with a log splitter. They are making a horrible mess leaving slash and smaller damaged trees because it isn't their property so there is no regard for how they leave it.
He goes to tell them to get off and he's confronted by half a dozen guys with guns. Sheriff couldn't drum up enough guys to take care of it so he calls friends to give cover support and takes care of evicting this bunch himself. Took a D9 in and flattened anything still there including trucks and ATV's. You have to support the landowners. Won his cases when the trespassers tried to sue for damages.
The court hearing was a joke as it was conducted by a very sympathetic judge. He wanted to know was the land posted and got a typical we didn't know defense. Was there chains on the fence? No, they were open, the judge says so then you were aware there were gates but you went through anyway because they were already open? You can picture the well.....did you have written permission to be on the property.....well no.
The trespasser doesn't have a leg to stand on if he starts by being confrontational and doesn't just leave. Fine line between chainsaws, dozers, and guns.
Doesn't the immaturity start with the criminal act of trespassing, not to mention blatant disregard for someone else's property?
There is a disconnect here between those who have and those who don't respect that it is owned by someone else.
I had a phenomenal deer on my property, I had guys offering me thousands of dollars to shoot it, the highest being $5000 (and he even added "okay, how much?). I refused it as was my right. The arguments were that they could shoot it from my property line, it's going to leave your property and get shot anyway might as well be me, You don't own the deer, etc. etc. I told the guy that thought he could shoot it from the road and come on the property to get it that that would be a massive mistake.
The crime starts (it is a criminal act to trespass on private property) with trespassing. It's a mistake to defend, allow for, and look the other way when another person's rights and property are being violated. Start the defense and feeling sorry for the one who's property is violated, not the idiot who can't be bothered with laws.
MLeake
What trespassers will do is unbelievable. I knew a guy who was checking on a big piece of property because people had been camping on it, they were making a mess cutting trees in the way of where they wanted to be.
He hears chainsaws and goes to see they are felling big trees and splitting it with a log splitter. They are making a horrible mess leaving slash and smaller damaged trees because it isn't their property so there is no regard for how they leave it.
He goes to tell them to get off and he's confronted by half a dozen guys with guns. Sheriff couldn't drum up enough guys to take care of it so he calls friends to give cover support and takes care of evicting this bunch himself. Took a D9 in and flattened anything still there including trucks and ATV's. You have to support the landowners. Won his cases when the trespassers tried to sue for damages.
The court hearing was a joke as it was conducted by a very sympathetic judge. He wanted to know was the land posted and got a typical we didn't know defense. Was there chains on the fence? No, they were open, the judge says so then you were aware there were gates but you went through anyway because they were already open? You can picture the well.....did you have written permission to be on the property.....well no.
The trespasser doesn't have a leg to stand on if he starts by being confrontational and doesn't just leave. Fine line between chainsaws, dozers, and guns.
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Last spring a few guys wanted to hunt turkeys, on my neighbors land. They took chainsawa and cleared the brushline, piled it up and set it on fire. The fire dept was dispatched to put it out and save them fellas from burning to death.
We get lots of city folk come out, they road hunt, shoot up signs, leave empty beer cans all over the place.
Had my truck messed with one time.
A nice place out in the country costs a bit of money, and takes a lot of work to keep it up. I dont take kindly to folks want to come mess it up cause some animals choose to be there.
We get lots of city folk come out, they road hunt, shoot up signs, leave empty beer cans all over the place.
Had my truck messed with one time.
A nice place out in the country costs a bit of money, and takes a lot of work to keep it up. I dont take kindly to folks want to come mess it up cause some animals choose to be there.
deathrider
New member
the old farm my wife lived on when we met, people hunted from the roads, it was horrible, but most deer was left behind, everytime I heard a shot I would walk to back bedroom window & open it & fire a semi auto 40 caliber & empty clip into ground, wife would be looking out window & watch & see how fast them rednecks left. it was in middle of true redneck hell. we moved from there 3 years ago to this place I have owned for 12 years. no hunting here, & better place, but still rural, but not as rural as my other land, thats 45+ miles from here
I know the state put up a dedicated sign / plaque, at wifes former property, & someone shot it the first night.
all those that favor the hunters, & not the property owners have never experienced it first hand. most hunters are respectful, it is the bad ones that ruin it for most, as the real bad ones are really bad.
as for my land, I was hiking it a few weeks ago & saw signs of hunters, but no problems to complain about. 1 soda can & a few shot gun shells are not bad, for all the hiking I did. if it stays like that I will never complain, unless any misuse starts again. but if it did, I dont think I would do what I did then, & I wouldnt call police, I dont know if I wouldn't contact some old friends & see if they want to open a branch "clubhouse" for a motorcycle gang to keep property in order! I worked at a bike shop many many years, my boss was in a 1%er club, he retired from the club, but kept close ties. he is still a very close friends, & we been friends since 1982. so let them come back & build a small place & let a few bikers take over for a while. I can gaurantee property would be kept clean & respected, & hunters would lose all the time & effort, & wouldnt be removing the 12+ foot tree house.
Randy
I know the state put up a dedicated sign / plaque, at wifes former property, & someone shot it the first night.
all those that favor the hunters, & not the property owners have never experienced it first hand. most hunters are respectful, it is the bad ones that ruin it for most, as the real bad ones are really bad.
as for my land, I was hiking it a few weeks ago & saw signs of hunters, but no problems to complain about. 1 soda can & a few shot gun shells are not bad, for all the hiking I did. if it stays like that I will never complain, unless any misuse starts again. but if it did, I dont think I would do what I did then, & I wouldnt call police, I dont know if I wouldn't contact some old friends & see if they want to open a branch "clubhouse" for a motorcycle gang to keep property in order! I worked at a bike shop many many years, my boss was in a 1%er club, he retired from the club, but kept close ties. he is still a very close friends, & we been friends since 1982. so let them come back & build a small place & let a few bikers take over for a while. I can gaurantee property would be kept clean & respected, & hunters would lose all the time & effort, & wouldnt be removing the 12+ foot tree house.
Randy
Some of the stories you guys are posting are really frightening. It is my dream to one day own a large property, but hearing the troubles you go through is enough to give second thoughts. Are there certain states where this is a more serious problem than others?
Accidental tresspass is forgiveable, if there is an enterance to the property that isn't posted and the tresspasser is using a temporary stand. Building a permanant structure, cutting down trees, etc. is another story all together. Even if it was public land that's a no-no. Those people are true outlaws with no regard for others. Confronting such people is really dangerous, and some of you make it sound like law enforcement won't always respond. Bad stuff.
Accidental tresspass is forgiveable, if there is an enterance to the property that isn't posted and the tresspasser is using a temporary stand. Building a permanant structure, cutting down trees, etc. is another story all together. Even if it was public land that's a no-no. Those people are true outlaws with no regard for others. Confronting such people is really dangerous, and some of you make it sound like law enforcement won't always respond. Bad stuff.
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