Humanoid targets for new shooters

FireForged said:
A firearm is a weapon [period]. It can be used for all kinds of things but if it uses gunpowder and fires a projectile, its a weapon. If it is never used for anything other than a lamp stand it is still a weapon none the less. Sport shooting is the demonstration of personal prowess with a [weapon]. I am not inclined to believe that people who are ok using rifles, handguns, bow/arrow, swords, flails, foils, polearms or any other weapon are completely devoid of the concept that these are weapons. At some point if for no other reason than safety, knowledge and respect of history- a person would have to qualify that in their mind.
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So a baseball bat is a weapon? And a car? And a truck? And a pencil? I mean, all these things are dangerous when used in a dangerous way thus making them weapons all the time by your definition. Nearly anything can be a weapon. Not all things are at all times.
 
I'd favor a circular, square, or diamond target so accuracy and corrections are obvious. Also, who wouldn't want to say "My first round hit in the center of the bullseye!"

Also, consider people's reasons for learning to shoot. If a person wants to be a hunter, having a game animal shaped target would be useful. If a person wants a gun for defense, humanoid targets are useful. If they want to "zen out" and be good at pure accuracy, targets that clearly show deviations, like bullseyes are the best.
 
FireForged said:
A firearm is a weapon [period]. It can be used for all kinds of things but if it uses gunpowder and fires a projectile, its a weapon. If it is never used for anything other than a lamp stand it is still a weapon none the less. Sport shooting is the demonstration of personal prowess with a [weapon]....
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All of that is fine, but irrelevant. If the goal is to take someone with no, or minimal, experience and lay a good foundation of safety, attitude and basic skills, things that might distract from that goal are best avoided.

I'm with a group which puts on monthly NRA Basic Handgun classes. Perhaps close to 90% of students have no prior experience with guns. Over the years I've helped introduce hundreds of raw beginners to shooting. Such newbies are faced with an enormous amount of new information and can easily become overwhelmed.

The interests of the student should come first. And the student's interests are best served by the instructor introducing all the new information in small, measured, well considered steps. Let the new shooter first begin to come to grips with the basics such as safety, management of the gun, basic shooting skills (sight alignment and trigger control).
 
So a baseball bat is a weapon? And a car? And a truck? And a pencil? I mean, all these things are dangerous when used in a dangerous way thus making them weapons all the time by your definition. Nearly anything can be a weapon. Not all things are at all times.
ripnbst is online now
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Then you mis-read or mis-understood. A firearm is a weapon by conception same as a car is designed from (conception) as a mode of transport and a pencil is designed from (conception) as a writing instrument. A Pencil does not stop being a pencil simply because you decide to stir your coffee with it, its still a pencil. Can you use a pencil as a weapon, sure.. but its still a writing instrument.
 
This is a bit like folks who can't understand that meat in the grocery store and meat from farming and hunting all comes from someone killing an animal.

These people arn't nessasarly opposed to shooting a gun, but can't handle the actual purpose of a handgun is usually shoot at other people, regardless of the situation.

As long as they can remain in their ignorient state, they're happy. As soon as the facts of life rear their ugly little heads, all hell breaks loose.
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Yep, I agree that is within the same arena or processes. My point was only that the premise ( silhouette targets) is conflicted and I don't really understand how one gets there. I don't always make my points very well but I agree with you.
 
I think for first time shooters a silhouette would be better. You are not trying to teach them bulls-eye accuracy but rather just to get familiar with the gun and the way it operates. If you start with the bulls-eye targets then there is always that chance they'll get frustrated or maybe even discouraged when they see right off that they are not able to hit consistently near the bulls-eye. The silhouette on the other hand is just a big body shaped target. You hit it? Yea, good for you now let's work on COM and tighten up your groups. Save the bulls-eye for later.
 
southjk said:
I think for first time shooters a silhouette would be better. You are not trying to teach them bulls-eye accuracy but rather just to get familiar with the gun and the way it operates....
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Actually, for that reason the best target for beginners is some plate sized circle without scoring rings.

Here's what we use for our Basic Handgun class.





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BTW, she had never fired a handgun before our class.
 
I think a blank sheet of paper works well for a brand new shooter. You're mainly emphasizing safety at that point anyway.

That said, if you want to avoid any political issue, let them pick the target.
 
I love the smell of electrons frying in a good discussion:

For the multiple folks suggesting I should let them pick their own targets- you are correct. My biggest reason for asking is that my range can be somewhat unpredictable as to what they have in stock, and as I have issued an open invitation, the unpredictibility is exacerbated greatly. I wanted opinions basically to see if I should start stockpiling "non-humanoid" targets. I'm greatly appreciating the opinions.

I'm also somewhat limited in my target options, as the indoor range has the overhead mounts that are designed for the full size silhouette targets. I can make smaller targets work with a used target and masking tape, but I'm assuming minimal preperation and advance notice.
 
In the NRA courses they suggest blank pieces of typing paper for first time basic shooters. It has been found that people can more often hit the blank paper than trying to concentrate on a bullseye. As shooters progress through courses they switch to bullseye targets and then "tombstone" targets.

If you are just fun shooting, I'd try some of the above, and if you want to take some zombie targets or whatever go for it, or if the range sells targets let them choose.
 
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I mostly shoot 4 1/2" plates and also shoot at a piece of paper that I have laid a CD on and spray painted that leaves a relief of the CD and a dark black dot. I find when I switch to a more human like target it helps me to focus on where I want to place my bullets. I find I make faster shots and more accurate shots on the target. I dont know why but someone pointing a gun at me flips a switch and adds to the intensity.
 
My range does not allow humanoid targets. I guess maybe it's to maintain a "family friendly" atmosphere, or whatever. (I never questioned it. It's a clean, classy, well-run range, so I can live with this quirky rule.)

That said, I think shooting at your basic circular targets is good practice anyway. Especially for the novice shooter. It helps with learning sight alignment, etc.
 
I remember when I first entered the military, one of the first ranges we went to during basic training was a pop up range with human silhouette targets.

At the time I didn't have any views or opinions on the matter, but the fact that we were shooting at targets that looked like humans really struck home and made me realize just what we were training for.

It didn't take me long to completely forget those feelings, and adopt a completely different mindset about it all, one that I won't share for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who's ever served in a combat unit.

Point is, I was in the military, and was conditioned to not only accept, but to embrace the idea of shooting human beings; However, I wouldn't expect a civilian who has no experience with guns to warm up to the idea so easily.

If the goal of the shooting is for fun, I'd go with bull's eye type targets, if the goal is self defense, then at some point you'll have to get it across to them that they might have to actually shoot another human being.

Something about shooting zombie type targets at Halloween disturbs me though.
 
I would use normal nonhumanoid targets for ambivalent new shooters. Then graduate to pics of rubber duckies or zombie pigs.

You want real love put out water bottles full of water. When they get hit the new shooters love it. My daughter loves them and also loves killing the post hallloween pumpkins. She's already suggested I buy the new shotgun I keep talking about and take it for a test drive on them. Thats my girl! :D
 
For static shooting, regular circle targets are the best. It permits you to focus on trying to attain tight groupings around a single point; and it tells you what you are doing wrong.

Shooting at blank paper for newbies is no fun. They want to know how they did, and the circle/ringed targets give the proper kind of feedback.

I'm pretty cheap and lazy, so I just buy some ringed targets and bring a roll of electrical or masking tape with me to the range. Big targets are too hard to store, carry, and mount.
 
In the "good 'ol days" at mcrd we had circle targets at only one distance, 500yds with M1 garand. The 1911 targets were the same size as the 500yd targets but at 50ft. You couldn't miss that one,:D
 
I'd say it was just as bad forcing people to use PC targets as it is using targets that resemble political figures.

The fallout from the latter tends to make the national news, tho.

When I was in the military, we went from sighting in on bullseyes to pop up tombstones in qualification to humanoid on combat courses. It was a stepped procedure, the shooter was introduced to targets in an escalation with his need to know the primary focus.

Fundamentals first, then application, and then more experience dealing with the emotional component as needed. Jumping ahead doesn't do the new shooter any good if the end goal is shooting humans.

Once the combat course humanoids were dispensed with, then MILES gear against an OPFOR of live targets, supplemented with indoor video shoots progressed.

The latter puts the point to CCW class attendees if they hadn't contemplated it before. The use of role player games with POV shooters has accelerated the exposure, tho, now ten year olds are doing things a basic trainee didn't even get until much later in his career.

I find it ironically funny to take an experienced video gamer to a range that doesn't allow tombstones, much less humanoids. They could have progressed far beyond the suburban mindset of Soccermomville. Goes to them being completely surprised when violence does pop up, they had no clue the kids were practicing shooting schoolmates in the basement.

Don't assume your new shooter is that much a tenderfoot, pretest and find out their acceptance level. Nonetheless, a progressive exposure is preferred when teaching en masse simply because you have to consider the least exposed student.

PS if your range doesn't like tombstone, will they accept five round targets stacked in a similar shape? If you are an experienced shooter, there are plenty of alternatives, get creative.
 
tirod said:
I'd say it was just as bad forcing people to use PC targets ...
...

When I was in the military, we went from sighting in on bullseyes to pop up tombstones in qualification to humanoid on combat courses....
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The OP is not talking about training people for combat. The subject is basic skills for raw beginners. For such purposes there are advantages to the use of non-representational targets, and it has nothing to do with political correctness. It's about avoiding unnecessary distraction.
 
I get a lot of smiles

introducing new shooters using old canned goods. I do have the luxury of shooting on my own property. Being involved in boy scouts we stay PC with bulls eye targets and clay pigeons. Tho we did just shoot zombies and aliens with a big slingshot we built for a fundraising/recruiting event we had in town. (not to digress but the police chief did say we technically needed a firearms id to have one (slingshot). I think he was kidding but you never know in NJ :-/
 
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