HSC mauser compared to other 380's

The normal functioning of the HSc (and also the 1910, 1914 and 1934 models) is that the slide locks back when the magazine is empty, or when it is retracted with no magazine in place. The magazine (if present) can then be removed, and the slide stays back. It is only when a magazine (whether loaded or not) is inserted that the slide will go forward.

Experienced users, wanting to retract the slide to check the chamber, will retract the slide, partially remove the magazine, then shove it back in, releasing the slide.

The concept is fine and reloading is fast. A loaded magazine can be inserted and the chamber loaded automatically with no need to fumble for a slide stop or pull back the slide to release one. But that speed is bought at the cost of a complex mechanism that often goes haywire. In fairness, failure is often the result of an ignorant user trying to force the slide forward or to make the mechanism work in a way it is not designed to do.

Jim
 
so, mine is not functioning "normally"?

It locks back on an empty mag, but when the mag is pulled, the slide closes.
 
No, it isn't. The correct operation is as I described. The idea is that when the magazine is empty, the slide locks back and stays back until a loaded magazine is inserted, then the slide closes automatically, chambering the first round. With yours, you would have to insert the loaded magazine, then operate the slide to chamber a round.

Jim
 
I have a American Eagle HSc, the last 5,000 made. It has never jammed, excellent craftsmanship. One of only two self-loading pistols ever made. Mine is in 380 ACP.
 
I've shot a half dozen Walther PP(whatever)s over the years in .22, .32, and .380. Probably 500 rounds, all calibers combined. I've shot 2 HScs, both .380, about 100 rounds each.

With anything resembling decent ammunition, all firearms were very reliable. I invariably printed tighter groups with the Walthers than the Mausers (I blame the sights on the Mausers), but the small amount of "instinctive shooting" I did was better with the Mausers. I liked every one of them that filled my hand, and would be hard-pressed to have to choose one over the other.
 
I agree that the sights are not what a full frame pistol would have, however, the HSc shoots better than most J frame Smiths. Once you are use to the sights, which are very low profile, the HSc does a decent job with putting holes in paper. It is a fun little shooter, my only real complaint is a little hammer bite at times. The H&K M4 is about as close to one made today.

Update: Took mine to the range yesterday and fired 100 rounds. No hammer bite and shot real nice groups.
 
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Regarding magazinzes for the HSc

Some knowledgeable people contributed to this thread, so let me throw a question out there that has been buzzing around in my head for a while: Are there other magazines out there from other .380s that'll fit the HSc?
 
Are there other magazines out there from other .380s that'll fit the HSc?
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None that I know of. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but I kind of doubt it, considering the difficulty I've had getting HSc mags to work in my HSc. The one that came in it is flawless (.32acp) but none of the others I've tried has worked.

Good Luck!'
 
Maybe some history would be of interest. In a Germany first beset by crime and then later under the domination of the Nazis who seem to have armed about anyone even remotely concerned with security (not Jews, of course), small pocket pistols were a highly desired commodity. First on the market (c. 1929) was the Walther PP (Polizei Pistole or Police Pistol), followed by the PPK (Polizei Pistole Kriminal or Detective Police Pistol). Then came the Sauer 38H (1938 model, H version) and the Mauser HSc (Hahn Selbst Spannung c, or Hammer Self Cocking, "C" version).

While the Walthers were made in 7.65mm Browning, 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP), 6.35mm Browning, and .22 Lang fur Buchsen (Long rifle), most wartime production was in 7.65 or .22 LfB since neither the 6.35 or the 9mm Kurz was in the German government supply system. With the possible exception of a few experimentals, all the HSc and 38H pistols were in 7.65 Browning, with the vast majority going to the German military or Nazi party organizations.

After the war, Walther resumed production of both the PP and PPK, first in France (by Manurhin) then in Germany at Ulm (the original factory had been at Zella-Mehlis in Thuringia). Mauser made the HSc in Germany and used some of its features in other post-war production, up to this day. It was also made under license in Italy. The Sauer 38H was never made after the war, though Sauer became a major arms producer, for some time merged with the Swiss SIG company. In 1968, the US passed a law effectively banning importation of pistols in .22, 6.35mm and 7.65mm; since that period, only guns in 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) have been imported, though Walthers in the banned calibers have been produced here.

Jim
 
In 1968, the US passed a law effectively banning importation of pistols in .22, 6.35mm and 7.65mm; since that period, only guns in 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) have been imported, though Walthers in the banned calibers have been produced here.
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The 1968 Gun control act did NOT ban guns by caliber. While it was effectively a ban on a lot of small guns, it was not based on the caliber of the gun, but the size of the gun. Along with the "sporting purposes" clause, the GCA 68 awarded "points" to the gun based on the total of its dimensions. IF a gun didn't have enough points, regardless of caliber, it was not allowed to be imported.

The stated reason was to stop the "flood" of cheap, small pistols, aka Saturday Night Special. Couldn't do much about those made in the USA, but by gosh, we can keep foreign ones out!!... :rolleyes: (if I remember right, there were also rules about the metal used, frame melting point etc.)

The most famous example of this rather stupid regulation was it banned quality guns as well, if they were "too small", such as the Walther PPK.

The PPK, in ANY caliber, didn't score enough points to be imported, essentially because the grip frame was 1/4" too short to make the arbitrary import minimum.

Just another example of a gun control law claiming to do one thing, but also doing other things as well. Walter's response was to create the PPK/s which DID meet the import requirements.

There are no "banned calibers" in the GCA 68.
 
Caliber does count. .22 to .380, 3 points; 9mm and up, 10 points.

So you could get in a .22, .25, or .32 as easily as a .380; but it would take such gimmicks as "target trigger" (serrated), and "target grips" (thumbrest) etc, etc.

Pistols: A pistol must have (1) a combined length "not less than 10" with the height . . . at least 4" and the length being at least 6" and (2) "a positive manually operated safety device."

They must have cut Gaston et al some slack on (2).

Pistols: A pistol must earn at least 75 points from the following characteristic areas:
Overall Length For each 1/4" over 6", 1 pt.
Frame Construction If investment cast or forged steel, 15 pts.; if investment cast or forged HTS alloy, 20 pts.
Weight One pt. per ounce; most pistols weigh between 15-40 ounces.
Caliber If between .22 LR and .380 ACP, three pts.; if 9mm or larger, 10 pts.
Safety Features Firing pin block or lock, 10 pts.; locked breech, loaded chamber indicator and magazine safety, 5 pts. each; grip safety, 3 pts.
Misc. Equipment Double-action mechanism, 10 pts.; click adjustble target sight, 10 pts.; drift adjustable target sight, five pts.; target grips, five pts.; target trigger and external hammer, two pts. each.


Reminiscent of the 6" .25s in Austria, as an effort to reduce concealability.

Or Mauser rifles with sights blocked at 300 yards by the Versailles Treaty ban on long range weapons for Germany.
 
The Mauser has a rather odd slide stop design. When the slide is pulled back with an empty magazine or NO magazine it locks open.
It can only be closed by inserting a loaded or UNLOADED magazine, which causes the slide to automatically close.
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This is a great, real world, combat ready design. You run out of ammo, slide stays open. Remove and insert fresh mag - ready to shoot. No sling shot, no slide release manipulation - perfectly thought out. Slick huh. I did see a demo where the slide could be dropped with the release lever. That added feature must be for dis-assembly.

MY HSc doesn't work like that. IT does lock open on an empty magazine, but you CANNOT lock it open without an empty magazine in place. And removing the magazine causes the slide to shut.
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Must be a worn slide stop or something is wrong? The first quote, is how they are supposed to work. It is a defining feature.

Edit: I missed where this was already answered. Well, then, its just added confirmation - FWIW.
 
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I said that GCA '68 "effectively banned" .25 ACP and .32 ACP. It was not a direct ban but it "effectively" banned guns in those calibers through a failure to meet other requirements.

Jim
 
The Star SI was imported by Interarms in 7.65 up until 1968, when the Spanish police turned in tens of thousands of S and SI pistols the factory rebuilt them with almost all SI’s converted to 380 and added to the thousands imported into the US with an adjustable sight and thumb rest grip....really stupid rules....when parts were available I changed a dozen of my pistols back to standard grips and fixed sight. The adjustable was normally too high for the low front sight anyway.

Nice to see ancient posts come back to life, post war HSC in any caliber but 7.65 is a crap shoot to get shooting properly.
 
I am not going to dig out my copy of GCA 68 but I think it also bans altering a legal import to remove the features that made it importable. Anyone sure on that?

Jim
 
This is a great, real world, combat ready design.
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If only you could get the pistol to be reliable-the most important criteria for any gun intended for self-defense. Mine could never be trusted to get through a couple of magazines without choking, even when using hardball. I tried different magazines and had a gunsmith look at it before giving up. As much as I liked the pistol I would never dare trust it with my life. Finally ended up selling it to a collector-with full disclosure.
 
Dfariswheel:

Weren't the post WW2 Hsc guns produced by "Manurhin", the French company? We know that the BRD, "West" Germany was not allowed to produce guns for years.
They would probably all be in .32 Auto, like my WW2 Hsc.

Beware that firing pins in the WW2 series are prone to broke with dry-firing. Use a 'snap cap'.
It is very difficult to find original firing pins.
 
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James K I am not going to dig out my copy of GCA 68 but I think it also bans altering a legal import to remove the features that made it importable. Anyone sure on that?
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You are thinking of 922r.......which has to do with semiautomatic rifles or shotguns only.

Glock 26's are imported with adjustable sights that are removed on arrival in the US. The adjustable sight helps them meet the ATF factoring criteria for importation.
 
I know of no federal law that prohibits one from changing a set of grips or updating sights on a personally owned pistol.
 
In Europe, the country in which a gun is officially proof tested is considered to be the country of manufacture.
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This is not true. Switzerland and the U.S. are not CIP countries and the Swiss SIG P210 pistols were usually proved through Hämmerli, Tiengen. They were still Swiss made guns, so are imported S&W and Colt revolvers still U.S. American, despite their mandatory German proof testing.

In Germany it is sufficient for a product to be assembled, or sometimes even repackaged in Germany to qualify as made in Germany.
 
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