jtduncan: I'm confused. In your first post you state that with the HS2000/Springfield XD "you're getting a fit and finish of a $300 gun much like the Kel Tecs". Yet in your second post you state (concerning the engineering and design comparisons to Kel-Tec) that "It's a style issue for me."
So which is it? If it's a style issue, and you don't like the ergonomics of the pistol, I can understand that. We all have different likes and dislikes. Although in all honesty, I don't see where the ergonomics can even be remotely called Kel-Tec-like. If anything, the HS2000's grip shape is most often compared to that of the CZ75, which is consistently mentioned as one of the better designed grips. In fact, many HS2000 owners find their pistol's ergonomics much more to their liking than the ergonomics of comparably sized Glocks. Such is the case with me, and one of the reasons I've never owned a Glock. While I recognize the superb quality of the Austrian brand, I've never been able to fire one without feeling that I was fighting the grip. Additionally, the shape of the HS2000's trigger guard (specifically the relief area that allows the pistol to rest lower in the shooters hand), coupled with its low bore axis, makes it one of the least recoiling and softer shooting 9mms out there. Also, the slide is dovetail cut to accept SIG aftermarket sights (I've got Meps on mine) and the tactical rails are industry standard too. It seems obvious to me that quite a bit of thought did indeed go into ergonomic design.
On the other hand, if you mean to say that the fit, finish, and general quality of the HS2000 are only that of most run-of-the-mill $300 pistols, and not up to the same standards as the more expensive big name brands, I'm afraid I must strongly disagree with you. One look at the massive frame rails, the thickness of the polymer in the dust cover area, and the robustness of the well-machined slide should put that notion to rest. This is not some slapped-together pistol, with poor tolerances, made from cheap potmetal and flimsy plastic. Its slide to frame fit is as good as the Glocks I've handled, and as good as any of my SIGs (not to mention having a finish that appears to be more durable than most of my SIGs). Tamara is right on the money when she says it'll stack up against most any polymer gun in the fit and finish department. To suggest that its quality is only such that it makes a good entry level gun or trunk gun is a notion that is patently false, and one that does a disservice to those coming here for accurate information. The HS2000 is not just a good $300 pistol -- it is a good handgun, period.
I will admit that you are correct about one thing, however, when you state "When it comes to putting another Wonder Nine into the crowded market, you've got to give shooter value for their money. The HS2000 delivers."
But again, I must disagree with you when you say "The XD does not." Seeing as how it's the identical pistol as the HS2000, save for the manufacturer's name, it is safe to say that the XD has the same fit and finish, accuracy, reliability, durability, and numerous standard features as the HS2000. And seeing as how the XD will not likely sticker at MSRP (as most guns don't), can we agree it'll likely sell for around $400 or slightly above? Then tell me how a used Glock is a good value at above that price, but a brand new XD with similar performance and more features is not a good value at less money. It only appears to not be a good value when we compare it to the ridiculously lowball price of the original HS2000. When we compare it with other pistols in the $400-$475 range, we find that it stacks up well against, or exceeds them in quality and features. I don't know about you, but in my book that makes it a good value at that price.
Take care all. Marko
So which is it? If it's a style issue, and you don't like the ergonomics of the pistol, I can understand that. We all have different likes and dislikes. Although in all honesty, I don't see where the ergonomics can even be remotely called Kel-Tec-like. If anything, the HS2000's grip shape is most often compared to that of the CZ75, which is consistently mentioned as one of the better designed grips. In fact, many HS2000 owners find their pistol's ergonomics much more to their liking than the ergonomics of comparably sized Glocks. Such is the case with me, and one of the reasons I've never owned a Glock. While I recognize the superb quality of the Austrian brand, I've never been able to fire one without feeling that I was fighting the grip. Additionally, the shape of the HS2000's trigger guard (specifically the relief area that allows the pistol to rest lower in the shooters hand), coupled with its low bore axis, makes it one of the least recoiling and softer shooting 9mms out there. Also, the slide is dovetail cut to accept SIG aftermarket sights (I've got Meps on mine) and the tactical rails are industry standard too. It seems obvious to me that quite a bit of thought did indeed go into ergonomic design.
On the other hand, if you mean to say that the fit, finish, and general quality of the HS2000 are only that of most run-of-the-mill $300 pistols, and not up to the same standards as the more expensive big name brands, I'm afraid I must strongly disagree with you. One look at the massive frame rails, the thickness of the polymer in the dust cover area, and the robustness of the well-machined slide should put that notion to rest. This is not some slapped-together pistol, with poor tolerances, made from cheap potmetal and flimsy plastic. Its slide to frame fit is as good as the Glocks I've handled, and as good as any of my SIGs (not to mention having a finish that appears to be more durable than most of my SIGs). Tamara is right on the money when she says it'll stack up against most any polymer gun in the fit and finish department. To suggest that its quality is only such that it makes a good entry level gun or trunk gun is a notion that is patently false, and one that does a disservice to those coming here for accurate information. The HS2000 is not just a good $300 pistol -- it is a good handgun, period.
I will admit that you are correct about one thing, however, when you state "When it comes to putting another Wonder Nine into the crowded market, you've got to give shooter value for their money. The HS2000 delivers."
But again, I must disagree with you when you say "The XD does not." Seeing as how it's the identical pistol as the HS2000, save for the manufacturer's name, it is safe to say that the XD has the same fit and finish, accuracy, reliability, durability, and numerous standard features as the HS2000. And seeing as how the XD will not likely sticker at MSRP (as most guns don't), can we agree it'll likely sell for around $400 or slightly above? Then tell me how a used Glock is a good value at above that price, but a brand new XD with similar performance and more features is not a good value at less money. It only appears to not be a good value when we compare it to the ridiculously lowball price of the original HS2000. When we compare it with other pistols in the $400-$475 range, we find that it stacks up well against, or exceeds them in quality and features. I don't know about you, but in my book that makes it a good value at that price.
Take care all. Marko
, I've got no room to pay for the luxury of status or goodwill to use the accounting vernacular.
