Hs 2000
- Thread starter Trimation
- Start date
If Glock sell their pistol for around $350 to LEO, you can bet that it doesn't take much to make a handgun. Remember the HS2000 is not made in the USA. Labor is cheap and so is the supplies in Croatia and Brazil. Like the other posts said SA do not make them, all they do is put their name on these handguns and ship them out.
I wouldn't be surprise that it only take less then $75 to produce one HS2000. Don't get me wrong, HS2000 are good guns but they are not worth an extra $200 for SA to put their name on it.
This is how CZ started out in the USA but they got smart and built a distribution center in the USA.
I wouldn't be surprise that it only take less then $75 to produce one HS2000. Don't get me wrong, HS2000 are good guns but they are not worth an extra $200 for SA to put their name on it.
This is how CZ started out in the USA but they got smart and built a distribution center in the USA.
David Berkowitz
New member
>>I've always been of the opinion that the HS2K, Glock, and USP >>are all fine $450 pistols...
Tamara,
I am not certain where you are located, but in Southern Calif, Glocks are now going about $500-$525, but hte USPs are $700 and more.
Tamara,
I am not certain where you are located, but in Southern Calif, Glocks are now going about $500-$525, but hte USPs are $700 and more.
David Berkowitz
New member
I got it.
Sort of like you can you can still get a good nickel cigar, you just have to pay a dollar for it.
Sort of like you can you can still get a good nickel cigar, you just have to pay a dollar for it.
The XD will prob go for around 425. However the Glocks around here are all over 500 or 600, and HK are around 700 or so. My HS is a great gun and I love it and for 300 it was a steal. You can still find them if you look. I guess they wanted to get the name out there let everyone find out how good a gun it is and get demand up then jack up the price. I hope that it becomes a popular gun. Also 400 is not in the same price range as a glock there are no used glocks for this price.
Maybe some of needed to listen to our Economics and Marketing professors in college.
Price and cost are two different concepts.
In many businesses, market share is king. Glock sells guns at or near cost to LEOs because they have captured the market with that technique. The higher percentage of officers carrying Glocks, the greater their civilian market sales.
LE sales probably account for about 5 percent of the total gun sales market in the US. They can easily afford to abosrb that loss of profit.
And the tooling, leasing, employee salaries, benefits, taxes, permits, ATF administrative fees, import fees, tariffs, materials, energy do cost a lot to put out most any products.
But if you look at several HSs/XDs carefully, you're getting a fit and finish of a $300 gun much like the Kel Tecs.
But once again, the HS2000 is a nice $300 gun. The XD is worth no more. Period. Guess SA does have an marketing professionals who understand concepts like entry pricing and product positioning.
It's like trying to sell a $18 Volkswagen Jetta for $50K when you can get a BMV, Porshe, or Audi for the same amount.
Price and cost are two different concepts.
In many businesses, market share is king. Glock sells guns at or near cost to LEOs because they have captured the market with that technique. The higher percentage of officers carrying Glocks, the greater their civilian market sales.
LE sales probably account for about 5 percent of the total gun sales market in the US. They can easily afford to abosrb that loss of profit.
And the tooling, leasing, employee salaries, benefits, taxes, permits, ATF administrative fees, import fees, tariffs, materials, energy do cost a lot to put out most any products.
But if you look at several HSs/XDs carefully, you're getting a fit and finish of a $300 gun much like the Kel Tecs.
But once again, the HS2000 is a nice $300 gun. The XD is worth no more. Period. Guess SA does have an marketing professionals who understand concepts like entry pricing and product positioning.
It's like trying to sell a $18 Volkswagen Jetta for $50K when you can get a BMV, Porshe, or Audi for the same amount.
jtduncan
Gotta say you've been looking at different ones than I have. With the exception of an occasional tool mark on the underside of the slide, all the ones I've seen (except for the first one or two) stack up very well against most any of the polymer guns in the fit & finish department.
I'll say it again; the G-19, HS-2000 and USP-9 are all good $450 guns. (It's just that some are priced well north or south of that point due to the label stamped on the slide)
Gotta say you've been looking at different ones than I have. With the exception of an occasional tool mark on the underside of the slide, all the ones I've seen (except for the first one or two) stack up very well against most any of the polymer guns in the fit & finish department.
I'll say it again; the G-19, HS-2000 and USP-9 are all good $450 guns. (It's just that some are priced well north or south of that point due to the label stamped on the slide)
This is funny! If they would have started out with a higher price this arguement wouldn't even be happening. Probably some of you, saying it's overpriced, are willing to pay an exorbitant amount for an, IMO, overpriced custom 1911. The bottom line is, if any of these can get the price they ask, then good for them, it's called capitalism. If it's too high, don't get one, go piss your money away on something even more ridiculously priced, with a big name the suits your fancy. I was lucky to get 2 HS2000s when they were underpriced, but I believe they are worth every bit of the new, higher price. Great gun!
If they started at a higher price it wouldn't sell. No one will take a chance on a new gun that hasn't proven itself.
There are two reasons why HS2000 got very popular in a short amount of time. One is price, which is always a good selling point. Second a gun magazine touted that it is better then a Glock or what a Glock should have been (I wonder how much they pay the gun magazines for that article).
We can all agree that the 1911 is a proven handgun.
There are two reasons why HS2000 got very popular in a short amount of time. One is price, which is always a good selling point. Second a gun magazine touted that it is better then a Glock or what a Glock should have been (I wonder how much they pay the gun magazines for that article).
We can all agree that the 1911 is a proven handgun.
Everything gets compared to something else. You can see things in the HS that were derivative of various gun designs. It just happens that the Glock is the "benchmark" for all polymer pistols to be judged. That doesn't make it a rip-off or a copy. As for the price, it probably shouldn't have sold for the current price, but that's not to say it's not worth it.
As for the 1911, yes, it's a proven design, that has flaws.
As for the 1911, yes, it's a proven design, that has flaws.
Pointblank2K
New member
I understand that GLOCK was an "unknown" at one time...and some brave souls paid good money for them anyway...hmmm? that sounds kind of familiar...time will tell how great these firearms are...so far my HS2000 shoots WAY better than I do! and i'll be first in line when they come out with a .45
Tony.
Tony.
On a monthly basis, I see several G17s, G19s, G22s, G23s, and even a G30 once in a blue moon for $399 to $420 used and if factory refurbished, with a pair of hi caps in local gun and pawn shops. Pawn shops are a good source since they can make profit other than the nominal 10 percent margin on NIB guns.
I like the HS2000 and think their marketing technique was right. They must have run into some import or manufacturing volume problems.
But as a project leader of dozens of engineers, I see different engineering styles and ways engineers design things based upon a budget. The Croatians made these HS200s well with great features. I just think the fit of the slide to the frame needs improvement. And they could checker the grip safety for better ergonomics. If they could engineer the SW Sigma's ergonomics and grip feel into the frame, it would be an improvement.
The HS2000s are great entry level guns for a person looking for an accurate and dependable $300 gun especially since new Glocks are $480-500 for most. Or a great trunk gun.
But the polymer receiver and the way it was designed and engineered still reminds me of Kel Tec's engineering style. It's a style issue for me.
And yes, HS2000, I'm quite serious. When it comes to putting another Wonder Nine into the crowded market, you've got to give shooter value for their money. The HS2000 delivers. The XD does not. The HS2000 is a good buy and a keeper. A better choice than many of the Ruger P-seriers and the Taurus Millenium series which are its main competitors.
But when you restamp or retool the slide to add a coprorate identity and have the polymer molds changed to put XD on there, I truly have a problem with corporate "badging."
Why buy a Honda Passport for the better parts and service when it's really just an Isuzu Trooper? Or why buy Windows XP when Win 95 is stable for you? My Win 2000 800mhz laptop runs slower than my 600mhz Win 95 laptop? The XD is a fraudulent "upgrade" with no real value.
Sorry folks, but as a former Assistant Attorney General, it pisses me off to see businesses operate like this.
Buy the HS2000 and send a message to SA corporate that we aren't fools. So the corporate bamboozelers can kiss my black booty!
If you want an HS2000, they can be located if you are motivated and now how.
I like the HS2000 and think their marketing technique was right. They must have run into some import or manufacturing volume problems.
But as a project leader of dozens of engineers, I see different engineering styles and ways engineers design things based upon a budget. The Croatians made these HS200s well with great features. I just think the fit of the slide to the frame needs improvement. And they could checker the grip safety for better ergonomics. If they could engineer the SW Sigma's ergonomics and grip feel into the frame, it would be an improvement.
The HS2000s are great entry level guns for a person looking for an accurate and dependable $300 gun especially since new Glocks are $480-500 for most. Or a great trunk gun.
But the polymer receiver and the way it was designed and engineered still reminds me of Kel Tec's engineering style. It's a style issue for me.
And yes, HS2000, I'm quite serious. When it comes to putting another Wonder Nine into the crowded market, you've got to give shooter value for their money. The HS2000 delivers. The XD does not. The HS2000 is a good buy and a keeper. A better choice than many of the Ruger P-seriers and the Taurus Millenium series which are its main competitors.
But when you restamp or retool the slide to add a coprorate identity and have the polymer molds changed to put XD on there, I truly have a problem with corporate "badging."
Why buy a Honda Passport for the better parts and service when it's really just an Isuzu Trooper? Or why buy Windows XP when Win 95 is stable for you? My Win 2000 800mhz laptop runs slower than my 600mhz Win 95 laptop? The XD is a fraudulent "upgrade" with no real value.
Sorry folks, but as a former Assistant Attorney General, it pisses me off to see businesses operate like this.
Buy the HS2000 and send a message to SA corporate that we aren't fools. So the corporate bamboozelers can kiss my black booty!
If you want an HS2000, they can be located if you are motivated and now how.
BrokenArrow
New member
The Glock had a good track record by the time it was offered for sale in the USA; NATO approved and adopted by Austria, Norway and a few others.
The SA XD has no similar track record. Good words in the gunzines are nice, but show me somebody who has some credibility who has done some mil-spec T&E and then put their money down for several thousand. Outside of Croatia.
I think the slide to frame fit on the XD I've seen/HS I've had is better than my Glocks. No big gap w the spring showing for example. I like the SIG locking block/bbl system better; can't jump up and ding the slide like my Glocks. The thicker chamber walls are nice. Grip feels better. Mags load to ten and insert w slide fwd easier than the Glock 10 rounders.
Would like to see a better finish than the Bruniral and/or put it on the exterior/interior of the bbl too (they do not as far as I know).
Stainless or nickel/teflon internals, etc. Solid, not roll, pins. The MSRP of $489 might make sense then.
Feels a little odd w that full size grip and 4 in bbl too (feesl like a G22 frame w G23 top). Shoulda cut the grip a little or given us a little more bbl.
Personal preference? I like the look/feel/fit of the XD better, but...
Bottom line is I _think_ the XD will be a good gun; I _know_ the Glock is a good gun.
The SA XD has no similar track record. Good words in the gunzines are nice, but show me somebody who has some credibility who has done some mil-spec T&E and then put their money down for several thousand. Outside of Croatia.
I think the slide to frame fit on the XD I've seen/HS I've had is better than my Glocks. No big gap w the spring showing for example. I like the SIG locking block/bbl system better; can't jump up and ding the slide like my Glocks. The thicker chamber walls are nice. Grip feels better. Mags load to ten and insert w slide fwd easier than the Glock 10 rounders.
Would like to see a better finish than the Bruniral and/or put it on the exterior/interior of the bbl too (they do not as far as I know).
Stainless or nickel/teflon internals, etc. Solid, not roll, pins. The MSRP of $489 might make sense then.
Feels a little odd w that full size grip and 4 in bbl too (feesl like a G22 frame w G23 top). Shoulda cut the grip a little or given us a little more bbl.
Personal preference? I like the look/feel/fit of the XD better, but...
Bottom line is I _think_ the XD will be a good gun; I _know_ the Glock is a good gun.
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Kit Barton
Inactive
I bought mine in March '01at dealer's cost. It had a feed problem, which I found was caused by a undersized chamber. Once the chamber was reamed to specs. I have had no problems. I have put about 6000 rounds thru it. I wouldn't trade it even for a Glock.