How would you identify an intruder. Conn shooting

How would you identify an intruder. Conn shooting
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Let's see, first of all, the intruder is inside, not outside. What was present there was as the sister described it, a possible burglar. Basically, the kid was a prowler, was confronted by the father and moved toward the father in an agressive manner with an openly displayed knife..

Everybody worries about shooting the wrong person inside their homes (hence maybe the thread's title, too?) proclaiming things like, "It could be your neighbor or a family member." It could. Neighbors and family members have been known to break in, burgle, rob, rape, and murder. Just because it is a family member or neighbor does not mean it is not a legitimate threat.

I blame the kid who was shot in this case. I feel for the father.
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Yep, the father did well, protecting his sister and himself.

I live in rural Texas and protecting your own home is how it is here. Cops arrive just to make reports, later. With that in mind, there's no wonder why our crime rate is extremely low here! My neighbors and I are all armed, are very close and look after each other. Bad guys don't like that.
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Naw, crime may be low where you are because you are in a rural location, like it is around the rest of the country. That isn't a special feature to Texas.

I believe in most states wearing a mask to covers one face, if not for costume partys, itself is a felony to conceal of the identity of the person. So that of itself is a crime.
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Please cite the laws from more than 2 states where simply wearing a mask that covers one's face is a felony. It may be a misdemeanor in many states and may be part of felony charges during the commission of a crime, but it isn't a felony in most states by itself.
 
About the father and daughter. IIRC - the parents went out. The daughter was supposed to be away. She came home early. Decided to hide and go BOO. Left the door open for a clue. Dad sees the open door and instead of calling the law, decides to enter. She jumps out to go BOO. He center punches her. She dies saying: Daddy, I love you.

He might have said he would have done it again, but if this is the case, I saw him interviewed and he was devastated and broken up.

Same horrible outcome with the LA case of the Japanese student. The shooting might have been a 'good shoot' but the consequences weren't.

Bottom line: unless you are in immediate threat or need to save someone, back off and call the cops. Look stupid if it is a racoon.
 
I believe I read a report indicating that the next door neighbor was the sister of the dad, and therefore the aunt of the prowler. Most people are going to go next door to help their sister, as opposed to telling her to call the police and sit tight for whatever amount of time it takes for them to respond.

And the same report identified the shiny object in the boy's hand as a knife.

So, if the dad/brother was on his way next door to provide aid and protection to his sister, and a masked person rushes him with a knife, I don't see how he can be expected to react any other way. I am sure he is heartbroken, but I hope he sees the rationality of his actions at some point.

As to the title of the thread, while I certainly subscribe to all of the Four Rules, including being sure of one's target, a masked man approaching with a knife is a legitimate target by any reasonable standard. It cannot be attendant to a defender to unmask or in any other way insist on identifying an armed masked assailant before defending himself and his loved ones.
 
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Saving your family is different from deciding to clear a house. I think we agree on that. But I would call the law too! And tell her to try to barricade herself somewhere.
 
Bottom line: unless you are in immediate threat or need to save someone, back off and call the cops. Look stupid if it is a racoon.
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Would this situation have a better ending if cops had shot a guy in a ski mask coming at them with a weapon?
 
How would you identify an intruder.
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Positively.... Before firing a shot I would positively ID the target as not being allowed here before sending a round down range...

I choose to live where the likelihood of a person cutting across my property is less than VERY REMOTE so much of that particular risk is mitigated by my choice of residence....

Brent
 
Positively.... Before firing a shot I would positively ID the target as not being allowed here before sending a round down range...
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But looking at the case in the OP, how would you change the outcome? Ask the kid to take off the mask first? And when he doesn't, what do you do?
 
What was he doing going to the neighbors house with a gun. He should have rang the police. Going to the neighbors house should have being a last resort.
 
Would this situation have a better ending if cops had shot a guy in a ski mask coming at them with a weapon?
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It seems quite likely that had the kid seen flashing lights and uniformed officers he might have reacted differently and might not have been shot at all. Even if he were determined to destroy himself and did force a lethal confrontation, the answer is yes, I think it would be a better ending if the cops had shot him instead of his father. Especially for his father.

As far as the original question. It's hard to identify masked persons--that's the point of a mask.

I think that the best lesson this scenario teaches is that you shouldn't force a confrontation if you don't have to. It's one thing to look stupid if you call the cops over a raccoon, but that doesn't compare to shooting someone when you could have avoided it.
 
Right, but again this situation involved the father going next door at the request of the frightened neighbor, who was not only known to him but also a relative.

I would have done the same, but would have had the neighbor/sister call 911, too.

This situation was really a no-win for the father.

I am normally one of the choir who say to hole up in a safe place, weapon ready, while keeping open comms with the 911 dispatcher. However, this won't work in all circumstances.

For instance, next spring if all goes well I'll be a first-time father. The baby will have its own room as soon as practical, as that is the advice being given to new parents these days. This means that at some point next year, any bump in the night larger than what a toddler would make will require movement on my part, at least enough to take a position covering the stairs (since our bedroom and the child's will be on the second floor).

Luckily, our house is set up in such a way that I can control a chokepoint.

On the other hand, at some point in the future one of my parents or one of my wife's may end up moving in with us. (We assume this will be the case with the survivor of the first one to pass, but that should still be some years off.)

At that point, we'll have a kid in an upstairs bedroom, and an elderly person downstairs. I will no longer be able to simply stay up at the upper landing to the staircase, if I suspect an intrusion.

Some situations don't lend themselves to calling 911 and sitting still.
 
Common sense. Lacking it can get you killed. If in 15 years the father hadn't explained to his son why creeping around in black with your face covered at night is a bad idea then the blame lies on him as well. And at 15 even my dumb [self] knew this was a bad idea. Kid HAD to have been up to no good if you ask me.

Am I just heartless? I really can't feel bad for stupid people.

Everyone I know understands that kicking down my door or breaking a window at my apartment is a REALLY bad decision. I make that clear.

Edit: I'm sure I'll catch flak for this, let the poo flinging begin.
 
I am from CT just not that area. I have heard that 2 days before a woman walked in on a robbery in progress and was brutally beaten and raped. So the entire town was on edge
 
I will no longer be able to simply stay up at the upper landing to the staircase, if I suspect an intrusion.
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Sure you will. You may not like doing it, but it's still an option.

Just like the father could have stayed inside and told the neighbor/relative to call the police.

It's true that people sometimes do things that are tactically unwise because they feel obligated to do so, but that doesn't eliminate the tactically sound option, it just makes it less attractive to them in the short term.
 
JohnKSa, we have to disagree on this one.

If I hear something downstairs that sounds like a threat, and I know my mother is down there, then staying upstairs and guarding the landing becomes my wife's job. (She has a gun of her own.)

Unfortunately, due to bad knees, etc, there will not be any way to consolidate all loved ones in one part of the house. (My mother and my wife's father have a very hard time with stairs.)

This is a fairly common problem, and one that people might want to consider when laying out their homes.
 
Let me just say this, and I'm inviting a WORLD of poo on myself here but here goes.

OC spray, I've been hit with it to get certified for an armed security job which I ended up not taking. It SUCKS and is almost immediately debilitating. I'm no chump and it brought me to my knees for about 15 minutes. I'd honestly rather be shot or tazed or beaten or blown up, OC is the most miserable experience I can imagine next to having your fingernails ripped out. If you know how to use it right it's 99.999 percent effective. Then again if you're dealing with an individual armed with a gun it's usually better to bring your own. You can never have too many tools at your disposal though.
 
JohnKSa, we have to disagree on this one.
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There can't be disagreement. It is certainly an option, even if it's one that you feel you can't avail yourself of. Short of being physically forced to go downstairs, it's clearly an option to remain upstairs.

I can understand why you may feel that you must go downstairs--I'm not even saying that I wouldn't go downstairs if I were in your place. I'm just pointing out that no one is actually forcing you to do so.

Look, when things go sour, you may very well go downstairs after considering the situation. But you should make that decision then, based on the circumstances. It's a mistake to rule out options at this point--especially tactically sound options.
 
If in 15 years the father hadn't explained to his son why creeping around in black with your face covered at night is a bad idea then the blame lies on him as well.
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LOL, my father never told me not to do this, and he was a cop until I was 10! Your father took you aside and told you not to do this before you were 15?
 
LOL, my father never told me not to do this, and he was a cop until I was 10! Your father took you aside and told you not to do this before you were 15?
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I was told this at one point during my teenage years. Don't remember the timing, exactly. But, yeah, I was told not to sneak around our house, or other people's houses at night, because it's a good way to get yourself shot. It wasn't the exact words, "Don't cover your face, dress up in black, and sneak around our house at night", but it was enough to get my attention.

It could be your dad figured you already had the sense not to do this.
 
Double Naught Spy
LOL, my father never told me not to do this, and he was a cop until I was 10! Your father took you aside and told you not to do this before you were 15?
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Yeah. And I didn't need to be told either. Common sense should lead one to the question "What would I do if I had a gun and saw me doing this?"

Edit: ditto what wayneinFL said, by both my father and grandfather
 
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