How to secure a safe to the floor?

Lacking a hammer drill, I recently mounted two plywood backer boards to the concrete walls of my basement. The concrete is 60" years old.
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And obviously used pretty soft aggregate.

The last time I needed to drill in my basement floor (poured around 1930, so about 81 years old) I had to switch from a hammer drill to a full up drill-hammer with spline drive.

The hammer-drill reliably stopped between 2-4 inches on each try (about 4 before I broke out the big drill).

After cleaning out the hole you could see a piece of aggregate in the bottom of each one.

Drilling into a floor slab, it's important not to try to drill too deep.
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You just need the right type of fasteners if you need (or have) to go through.
 
With regard to drilling through the safe itself... my safe came pre-drilled for base anchors. I had thought that was standard? I could see the need to drill into the back, if securing to a wall as well as the floor, but I thought most name-brands were already rigged for the base.
 
"If the floor is remaining dry why would the bottom of the safe not stay dry?"

Even when it's dry, concrete is rarely totally dry. It is, in essence, a big, solid sponge that can hold an amazing amount of water.

Even if it looks dry on top, it could still be passing water vapor through into your basement, meaning that anything sitting on the concrete has the possibility of acting as a condensing surface.

I've always recommended a double sheet of vinyl flooring under a safe.
 
I agree that you should out something between the floor and safe.

Does anyone see anything wrong with just bolting it to the studs in the wall? Use some good thick lag bolts there.

Maybe lag bolts in the wall and the adhesive on the floor if you really don't want to rent the hammer drill.
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Of the two safes that I have, both have mounting holes predrilled into the base of said safe. To bolt a safe to the wall you would have to drill holes thru the safe wall inself. Not impossible, but I wouldn't want to do it.
 
Even when it's dry, concrete is rarely totally dry. It is, in essence, a big, solid sponge that can hold an amazing amount of water.

Even if it looks dry on top, it could still be passing water vapor through into your basement, meaning that anything sitting on the concrete has the possibility of acting as a condensing surface.
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After spending 15 years in the concrete industry and 13 years being F.D.O.T. certified batch-man and 7 years as a NRMCA ( national ready mix concrete association) certified plant manager concrete will absorb and dispel water yes. That is why vapor barriers are put in place where the building is going to be occupied. Garage included. Outdoor patios no vapor barrier as well as driveways. If the above quote is indeed happening humidity would through the roof and everything in that room would be rusting and moisture problems would prevalent everywhere.
As to the concrete being rarely dry all I'll say to that is the Hoover dams concrete is still curing after all this time because of the thickness of the dam.

Vapor barrier is the key to preventing problems.
Question to the members here that are in a house that is slab on grade. How many of you are having your fridge, stove, dishwasher and any other metal products rusting out due to moisture coming out of the concrete? Also how many of you are have mold and mildew problems in the home due to moisture coming up and out of the concrete slab?????
Probably none so the safe rusting out is a farce.

Just wanted to add this, what is happening to the firearms with all this supposed moisture?
 
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Even when it's dry, concrete is rarely totally dry. It is, in essence, a big, solid sponge that can hold an amazing amount of water.
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Concrete wicks water VERY well.

Any concrete in contact with earth is wet.
It never dries out completely.

The Portland cement in the concrete is also very alkaline, and with the slightest moisture will corrode steel very quickly.

There is a reason the building codes require pressure treated wood in contact with masonry within 18 inches of the ground.
 
This house is as old as rocks. the basement walls are cast concrete, and honest to god, exactly 12" thick. An entire foot of cast concrete. Not a crack, not a leak, but the basement is still humid year round because yes, concrete does carry moisture into the basement. In reality, a basement is supposed to be wrapped after casting, or coated with mastic, or maybe both and other measures to boot, but it isn't done right, and very rarely was it done in the past.

So, yes, it's a bad idea to attach anything to a subterranean concrete floor or wall that is exposed to earth on the other side. Leave a gap or use a barrier.

I'm still standing on the idea that you should attach to walls. Mounting at the base only will allow a burglar to snap off or yank your anchors out by tipping and pulling the safe. The same number and same size of anchors put into an identically strong wall would require enormous direct force to pull out, without the benefit of the safe's leverage.

If a safe was attached to wall studs by 3" x 1/4 lagscrews in every corner, you would honestly have to destroy the wall to get it out. The only way you could do that would be break through the drywall, break the studs apart, and then pull it out.
 
In reality, a basement is supposed to be wrapped after casting, or coated with mastic, or maybe both and other measures to boot, but it isn't done right, and very rarely was it done in the past.
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'Damp proofing' has always been mostly a joke, like most field applied attempts to seal things against water intrusion.

Footer drains to channel water away are about the only thing that really works.
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You know something funny? I have the only dry basement I've ever seen in this town. The biggest reason for that is that I'm at the very top of the hill on the highest ground for probably a mile. Our sewers are buried about 12 feet deep, so they could be kept in line with the rest of the city, instead of 6 feet above normal drain slope.

Basements are an incredible pain in the keister.
 
Its called a vapor barrier here in FLA and must be used in any dwelling that will be inhabited by humans. It does work and does prevent moisture in the home. Building codes vary so I guess in places that a vapor barrier is not required moisture will be present. Guess I'm lucky to be in FLA.:cool:
 
Vapor barriers are great...

If the house is new enough to have been covered by that section of code, if one was installed properly before the slab was poured (my Father was a civil engineer, I've seen many new homes that didn't have the code-required vapor barrier, or it wasn't installed properly), and if the hired help didn't poke it through with a million holes when they were screeding out the base.

My house, built in 1979, apparently doesn't have one based on the other houses in my community.

Even though we're above the watertable, taping a sheet of plastic over the slab for a couple of hours will, especially in summer, result in a lot of water collecting in a few short hours.

In summer, the humidity in my basement is off the scale. I have to keep a dehumidifier running constantly, and that's with vinyl over most of the floor, epoxy over about 25% of it (utility room) and "waterproofing" on both the interior and exterior of the foundation.

My safe sits on 4 hockey pucks. I don't have it bolted to the slab, as I really don't need to. Mine's a full in-ground basement, and the safe BARELY fit down the steps. It's not coming out of there without heavy equipment.
 
Yep like I said I am lucky with how my garage was prepped and poured. Zero moisture thanks to the moisture barrier gods.:cool:
 
Then you could always have a house like my Mother's. 1903 Victorian with a mortared field stones.

There's been WAY too much rain in Pennsylvania this year, and there's water coming in the foundation and going across the floor to the french drain.

I'm going to have to find the hole(s) and parge them with hydraulic cement. Again.

Back in the early 1990s we had a summer that was nothing but gully washers. My Grandparents were living in the house, then. The rains got so bad that the storm sewers backed up and water was coming into the basement through the french drains.

That was special going down into that mess to put in the rubber plugs...
 
Sounds nasty, Mike!


But I'm having a garage built and installing a safe in it, so this thread has been immensely helpful to me! thanks to all...
 
I've seen a lot of garage slabs poured over dirt, don't assume there is a vapor barrier in place. Put a couple of pieces of laminate flooring under the safe to keep it off the concrete. If the floor is badly cracked, or if you drill too deep. a hammer drill with a hammer bit can be used to jackhammer out a square of the slab. You can re-pour a good strong mix and set your bolts in fresh concrete where you need them, and tie them to some rebar if you like.

I think your gun safe is too valuable to trust to a 4" slab of old concrete of unknown strength and reinforcement. I removed a 3 foot square, dug out a bit deeper, put in a barrier, drilled the sides for new rebar (there was one piece found in the old cut area), and put threaded pipe where the bolts needed to be. Let it cure for a week, then moved the safe over and put the bolts in the threaded ends.

A hammer drill is such a useful tool, think decades, you can get a good Dewalt for about $70.
 
Rent a good Rotary Hammer Drill and the right size bit and put real anchors in...

So, you are trying to save 20 or 30 bucks to protect a couple thousand dollars worth of guns stored in a 500-1000 dollar safe? I'm just assuming here. n Where is the practicality in that?
 
Basements are an incredible pain in the keister.
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Water & houses is a pain in the keister...

I spend half my time w/our rentals trying to keep water out & the other half, trying to keep water in (plumbing).

I've concluded the human race was never intended to live inside a dwelling...let alone try to bring water in and let waste water out...
 
There's been WAY too much rain in Pennsylvania this year, and there's water coming in the foundation and going across the floor to the french drain.
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I feel for you Mike a close friend who lives in PA NW of Wilkes Barre is dealing with a wet basement and has for the last 35 years that I have known him. Hes also a gunsmith working from his home. All his safes are up off the floor with the sump pump in place at times working double duty.
In that aspect I'm glad I don't have a basement to deal with and factually there are very few and far between basements in FLA
 
If the house is new enough to have been covered by that section of code, if one was installed properly before the slab was poured
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And depending on the local hydrology and the amount of rainfall in the area you can still end up with water.
Put a basement or slab on soil that does not drain freely and vapor barriers and damp proofing become useless.

It is not just vapor, but liquid water.

Soil that drains poorly makes a nice swimming pool when you dig a hole from surface runoff, and all the barriers in the world are not going to keep the water out very long.
 
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