How to Properly Polish a Feed Ramp

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This link will take you to the OP's 1911 trigger job on a Kimber.

I'll let it speak for itself without comment.

If you don't have a lot of time,I found the footage at around 5:00,17:00 through 20:00 interesting.

https://youtu.be/6Kdo-C2pUgc
 
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It was actually a rhetorical question since really your answer wouldn't mean much. We're not in a position to check your references or verify your credentials. And a number of well known and regarded members here have taken issue, citing their technical bases, with a number of things you've posted.

The real point is that someone calling himself an expert (which apparently is your style) is a false note -- it just doesn't ring true. It's not anyone's place to call himself an expert, or a nice guy, or honest, or handsome, etc. Those sorts of assessment are for others to make.
Got it, i guess it was a misunderstanding tends to happen alot on forums lol. Sorry bud
 
HiBC said:
...I'll let it speak for itself without comment....

Help me here please. He says around 5:00 while using an Arkansas stone, "Remember, we're not removing any material. We're just cleaning up the surface...."

I've always understood that an abrasive, like an Arkansas stone, does remove material, albeit in the case of a fine abrasive like an Arkansas stone very little. Is my understanding incorrect?
 
Yes,Mr Ettin,they cut.
A basic sear jig can be had from Brownells for about $25.00

I went for the Marvel,myself. I don't think most folks can feel/maintain the flat of a sear engagement surface on a stone.

I suspect cold bluing the surface before stoning would be enlightening.

In my trade/profession,opinion did not cut it. That's why toolmaking,machining,etc has measuring tools/metrology. For my home use,thats why I recently bought a Browne and Sharpe toolmakers microscope.
30X,protractor head,crosshair reticle,and X-Y micrometer heads about 1 1/2 in in dia,direct reading .0001. Nice tool. I can tell you if the Arkansas stone took off .0002. I can also tell you if its square,or rounded.I can measure the primary and secondary sear angles,and measure the lengths.
If you don't measure,you don't know.

I use a sear jig.I never went to Trinidad Gunsmith school,but I suspect they teach "Use a sear jig"

As a kid I kept my Buck folding Hunter pretty sharp with nothing but a hard Arkansas stone. The stone does cut.
 
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help me here please. He says around 5:00 while using an Arkansas stone, "Remember, we're not removing any material. We're just cleaning up the surface...."

I've always understood that an abrasive, like an Arkansas stone, does remove material, albeit in the case of a fine abrasive like an Arkansas stone very little. Is my understanding incorrect?

Yes correct the use of a Arkansas stone will remove material undoubtedly even though its a fine stone. the point i was trying to make was that im not trying to remove large amounts of material, only enough to clean up the surface. i should have been clearer when speaking. im new to the whole video thing brother, mistakes in words will be made we are all human here. but its great to see that instead of helping each other out on the forums we resort to bashing each other. Nice, the whole reason i started doing the videos was to try and help people out. But its cool i will just keep doing my own thing. and invite anyone interested to watch.
 
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Gorrilla,you go back and re-read my posts to you and think about whether I was trying to teach you or bash you.

Whether you choose to learn is up to you.

I find it hard to believe they taught you to stone sears without a sear jig at Trinidad.

Its my opinion that your youtube videos teach very questionable practices.

That's not bashing. Its honest.I don't know yet whether you need more skills,or a different attitude toward workmanship,but IMO,you aren't ready.Not with any of my guns.

Take a deep breath.If you sincerely want to learn,this is a good place.
 
Yes,Mr Ettin,they cut.
A basic sear jig can be had from Brownells for about $25.00

I went for the Marvel,myself. I don't think most folks can feel/maintain the flat of a sear engagement surface on a stone.

I suspect cold bluing the surface before stoning would be enlightening.

In my trade/profession,opinion did not cut it. That's why toolmaking,machining,etc has measuring tools/metrology. For my home use,thats why I recently bought a Browne and Sharpe toolmakers microscope.
30X,protractor head,crosshair reticle,and X-Y micrometer heads about 1 1/2 in in dia,direct reading .0001. Nice tool. I can tell you if the Arkansas stone took off .0002. I can also tell you if its square,or rounded.I can measure the primary and secondary sear angles,and measure the lengths.
If you don't measure,you don't know.

I use a sear jig.I never went to Trinidad Gunsmith school,but I suspect they teach "Use a sear jig"

As a kid I kept my Buck folding Hunter pretty sharp with nothing but a hard Arkansas stone. The stone does cut.
Yes i know jigs are pretty cheap, i own 2 different styles of jigs. i just decided not to use them for the video as i tend to use them only when changing engagement angles. and yes you can use cold blue, Dykem fluid, even a sharpy to mark the surface and use as a guide. and yes i know Hard Arkansas stones cut see my other response ^^^ i wast trying to say that i was not trying to remove a lot of material simply clean up the surface a bit. again i am new to the whole video thing and i need to work on my speech a bit better while working. i am more use to working on something and not have to explain myself while doing it so its a learning curve. and yes in Gunsmithing school they teach you both ways with and without jigs. obviously they most practical and safest way would be use the jig but again i only use when changing angles because a lot more room for error and buying replacement parts can become expensive quickly.
 
GorillaGunworks said:
...its great to see that instead of helping each other out on the forums we resort to bashing each other...

It's not about bashing people. It his about helping the people who read these forums and other media on the Internet get good information. That's what they come for.

But there's a lot of bad information out in cyberspace, because it's so easy to put information out there and make it available to everyone in the world with Internet access.

These discussions help test the validity and utility of some of the information that gets sent through the ether.

GorillaGunworks said:
...i am more use to working on something and not have to explain myself while doing it so its a learning curve. and yes in Gunsmithing school they teach you both ways with and without jigs. obviously they most practical and safest way would be use the jig....
And perhaps someone who has spent considerable time perfecting his skills can do a lot of things free hand that others need a jig for. But YouTube videos go to a large audience, including novices who haven't perfected many of the "hands-on" skills of seasoned practitioners.

I like to cook and have done so for many years. I prepare hollandaise and bearnaise sauces over direct heat -- although every cookbook will tell you to use a double boiler. That's because cookbooks are written for both the experienced cook and the beginner. A beginner will generally not have the skills to prepare certain egg yolk thickened sauces over direct heat, and when he tries he will often get scrambled eggs instead of a smooth, thick, delicious sauce.
 
It's not about bashing people. It his about helping the people who read these forums and other media on the Internet get good information. That's what they come for.

But there's a lot of bad information out in cyberspace, because it's so easy to put information out there and make it available to everyone in the world with Internet access.

These discussions help test the validity and utility of some of the information that gets sent through the ether.

And perhaps someone who has spent considerable time perfecting his skills can do a lot of things free hand that others need a jig for. But YouTube videos go to a large audience, including novices who haven't perfected many of the "hands-on" skills of seasoned practitioners.

I like to cook and have done so for many years. I prepare hollandaise and bearnaise sauces over direct heat -- although every cookbook will tell you to use a double boiler. That's because cookbooks are written for both the experienced cook and the beginner. A beginner will generally not have the skills to prepare certain egg yolk thickened sauces over direct heat, and when he tries he will often get scrambled eggs instead of a smooth, thick, delicious sauce.
Point Taken Frank and you are right, i need to gear my videos more towards the beginners and use all available aids to simplify the work and teach better and safer methods. Thank you.
 
In most cases, the polished feed ramp is to reassure the customer that his gun was worked on. A properly contoured dull finished feed ramp will deliver the cartridges to the chamber just as well. But it won't look "custom." Then there is the problem of the shiny feed ramp not of proper contour.
 
Frank made the point.You heard it.
No need for me to say it again.
So I'll just say "Cool".
We can start over. Welcome.
 
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/6/9/tuning-the-m1911-for-reliability/

Paragraph 9 ^^^

http://eaglegunrange.com/gun-store/gunsmithing/

Under General Barrel services

https://www.fusionfirearms.com/throat-barrel-polish-feed-ramp-and-hone-chamber

and i can go on, he point i am trying to make is that this is a basic and simple gunsmith practice, i know some of you are concerned with the whole chamber issue but what i want to explain is that you are not going to remove so much material from the chamber to cause the issue of ruptured casings or catastrophic issues. unless your sitting there for a long time with some abrasives inside the chamber and exaggerate the job by doing to much but polishing a little will not harm your chamber.
 
In most cases, the polished feed ramp is to reassure the customer that his gun was worked on. A properly contoured dull finished feed ramp will deliver the cartridges to the chamber just as well. But it won't look "custom." Then there is the problem of the shiny feed ramp not of proper contour.

Correct.
 
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Frank made the point.You heard it.
No need for me to say it again.
So I'll just say "Cool".
We can start over. Welcome.
lol Cool thanks for the welcome bud, no hard feelings, i just tend to get into these things, we are all just trying to make our point.
 
What you do in your video is NOT "polishing a little."
It's ham-handed, wide open grinding. Don't think "polishing" compound won't remove metal. All that black stuff on the felt bob IS metal.
There is absolutely no need to do what you are doing. The chamber will be out of spec, and the chamber mouth will be rounded.

Will the gun blow up? Maybe-if you round the chamber mouth too much.
Sorry- this is bubba gunsmithing.
 
What you do in your video is NOT "polishing a little."
It's ham-handed, wide open grinding. Don't think "polishing" compound won't remove metal. All that black stuff on the felt bob IS metal.
There is absolutely no need to do what you are doing. The chamber will be out of spec, and the chamber mouth will be rounded.

Will the gun blow up? Maybe-if you round the chamber mouth too much.
Sorry- this is bubba gunsmithing.
Bill please read the previous posts, everyone already settled down, I know that when you polish metal you remove some hence the reason for the shiny surface but the amount removed in this case is so little it will not affect the chamber in anyway the chamber is not getting rounded over as you say. It's not like your going to be polishing the chamber with abrasive for extended periods of time that is ridiculous. And please before you insult someone else's work worry about your own. I studied gunsmithing and I know what I can and cannot do. You studied your knife making I'm sure so I won't insult you in your department. Because last time I checked I have not insulted anyone in here, and everyone has made their point or better yet given there opinion without insulting. So before you go and insult someone who has studied their craft for years worry about your own mediocre website and butterknife collection.
 
The way to resolve the disagreement is to grab another barrel and do before and after chamber casts and measure them and see what you get. Measurements trump opinions about what does or does not appear to be happening. Such measurements would also make a dandy summary addition to a video. It would allay concerns, assuming you are correct that a significant amount of material is not being removed. But if Mr. DeShivs is correct, you'll want to learn that, too, and revise your practice, accordingly.

The late father of a friend of mine used to say: "There is no point in arguing about facts. They are either so or they aren't. You measure them or look them up, as the nature of the fact requires." This accords with the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynahan's statement: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Also, with Mark Twain's observation: “The trouble with the world is not that people know too little; it's that they know so many things that just aren't so. ”

Measure.
 
I'm not here to bust your chops but I do have some questions. How much run out does your Foredom tool have? Being a gunsmith I'm sure you realize the importance of keeping the chamber as true as possible with the bore of the gun. Unless you're extremely lucky I don't believe that can be done with a hand held tool. I also watched your trigger tuning video and can not believe what I watched. Again with your knowledge you surely realize the importance of truing and squaring hammer hooks on a 1911 style gun. Also the importance of mating both sear angles to the hammer hooks once they are true and square. Once again the procedure you used in your video you would have to be extremely lucky for that to happen. As a matter of fact if you're that lucky you would be better suited playing the lottery. I would suggest if you want to make videos of your work at least please use the correct procedure for doing the work, after all I feel that's what a professional would do.
 
Gorilla,for a little bit,I thought maybe something sunk in. Your latest posts disappoint me.
I'll say again,this IS a good place to learn. But first you might have to get humble enough to learn.
There is a progression of learning.
1)Unconscious incompetence. That's where you are screwing up and don't know it
2) Conscious incompetence. That's where you are screwing up but you realize it. Very important step. Ego and illusion hold you back. Disillusionment is uncomfortable. It is the birth pang of Truth.From here,you can learn,or be taught ,Competence
3) Conscious Competence.That is where you focus and practice new things,but you still look at the "H" on the gearshift knob.
4) Unconscious competence That is when the new competence become natural.Like shifting and clutching.

Your resistance is holding you in step 1.

Your first posts were about "Hey guys,I'm gonna teach you" I gave you the courtesy of watching.

Your stuff is not good. Your trigger advice will cause some hobbyist to make his gun unsafe. Your ramp/chamber advice may well be destructive.
You are just flat wrong about the chamber. As Unclenick and I both said,unless you measure,your "It does not cut" is based on illusion.

Cutting through to you has been a lot of work. Now you are getting disrespectful when you ought to hve your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.
I'm rapidly losing respect.

Did you ever watch "The Magnificent Seven?

You don't realize you are standing in front of Yul Brynner playing "ClapHands"

FWIW, When Unclenick,Frank Ettin,or Hunter Customs or Bill Deshivs share their knowledge and expertise,I humbly sit up,take notice,and keep my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut.There are other people here,not mentioned,I give the same consideration to.

So far,what you have shared is not anything I would want done to my guns or anyone elses.

IF you actually want to learn,make your way to step 2. "Conscious Incompetence" and we can get some work done.

And you might apologize for some of the snotty disrespectful remarks you have made.

You just might use the search button,enter some of these names and read postes for a couple of hours and figure out who you are making a fool of yourself in front of.

Then don't run away. Just grow up a bit and begin the learning you say you are here for.

And please don't turn my effort into a waste of time.
 
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