how to master first pull - DA in a DA/SA pistol
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
Tucker 1371
New member
Dry fire is absolutely great and I do it daily. But a few thousand times, whilst practicing good sight picture, drawing and presenting, etc, would take me a couple months. And learning to tinker with guns is a rewarding skill. Now changing main springs, that's a risky proposition, reliability wise. I installed one in my CZ75 but only because it came with an extended firing pin to eliminate light primer strikes.
Changing parts from stock is always a gamble. But some light polishing on a hammer strut is neither difficult nor very risky, the sear and hammer are different.
As much as I liked Cooper, he could be an ass. To the uninitiated, what he was saying made some sense, but things like that, and "just shoot the first round into the ground to cock the gun" were pretty silly, and basically just BS. Those who shoot DA know better.
DA/DAO is no harder to shoot well with than anything else. It seems to be harder for SA shooters to adjust, but thats a shooter issue, not the guns. DA, and especially DAO shooters, tend to be more rounded and less trigger phobic, and really have little trouble shooting anything they pick up.
As far as DA being a "problem", I shot this from about 10 yards with my old SIG P229. Each round on the target was from the holster and most were shot DA, with some double taps in there. I was getting antsy there at the end, and it shows.
DA/DAO is no harder to shoot well with than anything else. It seems to be harder for SA shooters to adjust, but thats a shooter issue, not the guns. DA, and especially DAO shooters, tend to be more rounded and less trigger phobic, and really have little trouble shooting anything they pick up.
As far as DA being a "problem", I shot this from about 10 yards with my old SIG P229. Each round on the target was from the holster and most were shot DA, with some double taps in there. I was getting antsy there at the end, and it shows.
There are some DA/SA pistols in which the DA pull is simply impossible to use with any degree of accuracy. But normally, the problem is not the DA itself but the "shift" from DA to SA, and the only way to tackle that is to practice the DA-SA shift over and over again.
With hammer down, draw and fire two rounds. Lower the hammer, holster. Repeat. When you can do that in reasonable time and have one group, you are getting there.
Jim
P.S. Don't get too much in the habit of firing two rounds, though; you might need to fire more sometime.
JK
With hammer down, draw and fire two rounds. Lower the hammer, holster. Repeat. When you can do that in reasonable time and have one group, you are getting there.
Jim
P.S. Don't get too much in the habit of firing two rounds, though; you might need to fire more sometime.
JK
Tucker 1371
New member
Or a 40 hour third shift work week plus a woman at home with an active outdoor lifestyle and a squad of Marines to manage (unpaid) in between drills.
I, personally, have too much crap to do on a daily basis to dry fire 100 times every day. I do about 25 from the holster daily. Now the OP, he could be retired for all I know. But I work, handle the admin and training needs of 8 Marines plus myself, and I have a fiancée to keep happy. I wish I had more time to practice but I don't, not without forsaking too many other things that have to get done.
I never said forsake dry fire practice entirely. I merely suggested using some beginner gunsmithing techniques to improve the trigger pull in lieu of pulling the trigger thousands of times. Plus dry firing that many times wears out main springs, firing pin springs, etc.
I, personally, have too much crap to do on a daily basis to dry fire 100 times every day. I do about 25 from the holster daily. Now the OP, he could be retired for all I know. But I work, handle the admin and training needs of 8 Marines plus myself, and I have a fiancée to keep happy. I wish I had more time to practice but I don't, not without forsaking too many other things that have to get done.
I never said forsake dry fire practice entirely. I merely suggested using some beginner gunsmithing techniques to improve the trigger pull in lieu of pulling the trigger thousands of times. Plus dry firing that many times wears out main springs, firing pin springs, etc.
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Definitely dry fire as much as possible, it'll smooth up the internals as well as help your trigger pull. Otherwise just shoot the heck out of it. Try different holding grips and amount of trigger finger you allow on the trigger. You'd be surprised how much an effect just shifting your grip on the gun has on shootability and accuracy.
Tucker 1371
New member
You know, I've seen anti gunners edit quotes like you do Mavracer, guess the context didn't work for the point you were trying to make.
To repeat, I never said forsake dry fire practice. I highly advocate dry firing as much as one's schedule allows. But dry firing isn't polishing. And polishing isn't a substitute for dry fire, I never suggested such. They both have the potential to improve results on the range. I see no reason not to do both.
If the OP is having trouble with the weight or smoothness of his trigger, he can modify his gun to work better for him. And if it is a gun he's carrying on a daily basis, he needs to become accurate with it yesterday. By whatever means.
To repeat, I never said forsake dry fire practice. I highly advocate dry firing as much as one's schedule allows. But dry firing isn't polishing. And polishing isn't a substitute for dry fire, I never suggested such. They both have the potential to improve results on the range. I see no reason not to do both.
If the OP is having trouble with the weight or smoothness of his trigger, he can modify his gun to work better for him. And if it is a gun he's carrying on a daily basis, he needs to become accurate with it yesterday. By whatever means.
g.willikers
New member
I have become convinced that excessive practice doesn't necessarily translate to improved skills.
A limited, but well focused routine of practice, whatever the goal, seems to provide plenty of skill building.
And in a fraction of the time.
There seems to be a point reached where continuing the same repetition becomes counter productive.
Practicing a good mix of skill builders, accomplished within a time limit that motivates doing it regularly, works pretty good.
Don't flinch or jerk the trigger. The first shot on a DA/SA is no different than every shot on DA only. Practice a steady trigger pull/press without jerking the gun.
Hand and finger strength have a small part to play, but not much. My 12 yr old runs a DA/SA in IDPA and 2 Gun matches and his first shot is just as accurate as his last.
Hand and finger strength have a small part to play, but not much. My 12 yr old runs a DA/SA in IDPA and 2 Gun matches and his first shot is just as accurate as his last.
If he has trouble with the weight or smoothness for SD shooting then his technique isn't good, If his technique is good weight and smoothness won't matter much.
Really good triggers only mask poor trigger control.
If he needed to be accurate with it yesterday, he should have started earlier. Until then you still need to learn to walk before you can run, Nike running shoes won't help you learn to walk.
mavracer: said:
That's Right! A friend of mine is an NRA certified instructor, he has a DAO S&W 5946 that is an NYPD castoff, this has the worst 12lb trigger of any gun I've ever encountered. He uses this gun to teach trigger control to his students. If you can shoot this monster halfway decently, you can probably shoot anything pretty well.
Tucker 1371
New member
Like I said, about 3 times now, I never suggested not doing dry fire practice. What I suggested was a combination approach. Are you suggesting that polishing up tool marks on internal surfaces is worthless? Also, if he has bad technique but doesn't know what he's doing wrong dry fire isn't going to do squat for him. Practice does NOT make perfect, Perfect Practice makes Perfect. Bad practice just further ingrains bad habits (i.e. Dry firing 3000 times when you don't know what you're doing wrong).
Maybe you should have read the entire thread before you posted, because in my first post I suggested a few mistakes the OP may be making and ways to correct them. In my second post I suggested doing some polishing.edit and changing the mainspring.
edit
That sentence will help the OP out a lot when he stops at the gas station tonight.
everyone starts somewhere.
Maybe you should have read the entire thread before you posted, because in my first post I suggested a few mistakes the OP may be making and ways to correct them. In my second post I suggested doing some polishing.edit and changing the mainspring.
edit
That sentence will help the OP out a lot when he stops at the gas station tonight.
everyone starts somewhere.
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I do get what you are saying and I believe that people should learn to shoot their pistol well before getting a trigger job on a pistol. In this instance I would tell the OP to work on trigger control before getting a trigger job.
I however disagree to an extent. Good triggers can mask poor trigger control but they can also be a way to fine tune a gun to unlock its full potential. When shooting competitions or other demanding shooting environments a good trigger can make the difference between winning and losing.
It is not as black and white as you are making it. Most competition shooters are not shooting bone stock triggers. None of the guys or gals at the top of the shooting sports world are shooting stock triggers so if you take your statement and apply it to them they are masking their poor trigger control.
To the OP dry firing the pistol and working on hand strength will help you learn to shoot your DA/SA trigger better. Stop shooting the gun in SA. Present the gun fire the DA shot. Then decock the pistol. Present the gun ad fire the DA shot. Rinse and repeat.
Once you are consistently making hits in the DA mode then switch to the DA/SA transitions. The videos sigarms228 posted will help with that. Good luck.
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If you are dead set on making a DA/SA your primary gun - it takes time to get the feel of that DA trigger to make it effective ( and make sure your fundamentals are solid - good trigger press...good follow thru...and concentration is the key ...) in my view.
There are differences in different mfg's DA/SA triggers Sig, HK, etc / so picking the right gun, right grip, etc are a big deal....because everything needs to be just right to be able to optimize your trigger press in DA.
I also agree that many guns in DA/SA especially can be improved by detail stripping them - making sure there are no burrs on hammer strut - and making sure the frame under the hammer strut is smooth and properly greased ....and make sure the hammer strut/mainspring is properly greased or lubed....it's easy to do...
-------------------- ....
While I have guns like Sig 226's and 239's....with DA/SA triggers.....I long ago realized my preference is for SAO guns ( like 1911's or Sig X-5 )....
I could make a DA/SA work -- but I would need to really dedicate myself to primarily only shoot that one gun....
I have also found that shooting some revolvers in double action ....helps the training process, for me, to shoot that DA/SA trigger gun better...
-----------------------
In the end - if it doesn't work for you --- move on to other trigger types...
There are differences in different mfg's DA/SA triggers Sig, HK, etc / so picking the right gun, right grip, etc are a big deal....because everything needs to be just right to be able to optimize your trigger press in DA.
I also agree that many guns in DA/SA especially can be improved by detail stripping them - making sure there are no burrs on hammer strut - and making sure the frame under the hammer strut is smooth and properly greased ....and make sure the hammer strut/mainspring is properly greased or lubed....it's easy to do...
-------------------- ....
While I have guns like Sig 226's and 239's....with DA/SA triggers.....I long ago realized my preference is for SAO guns ( like 1911's or Sig X-5 )....
I could make a DA/SA work -- but I would need to really dedicate myself to primarily only shoot that one gun....
I have also found that shooting some revolvers in double action ....helps the training process, for me, to shoot that DA/SA trigger gun better...
-----------------------
In the end - if it doesn't work for you --- move on to other trigger types...
1969Colt1911
New member
Your obviously wanting self defense practice. Because in competition you make gun in SA mode. Just practice the -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- out of it as much as you can. And if trouble with DA mode make it that way over and over.
1969Colt1911
New member
Sorry I wrote bad words.