Desert Dog
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Eh... Just drink your fluorinated tap water and relax...
How to DESTROY AMERICA - by Dick Lamm
- Thread starter Wallew
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shootinstudent
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Wallew,
Untrue. Diocletian, Constantine, Theodosius I, and so on all the way to Heraclius were major world leaders. Heraclius even managed to annihilate the Persians. And, even in the time of Caesar, the Romans lived in a bilingual and pluralistic society.
People will always claim that including some such new group is the end of the world, and they will almost always be proven wrong.
Untrue. Diocletian, Constantine, Theodosius I, and so on all the way to Heraclius were major world leaders. Heraclius even managed to annihilate the Persians. And, even in the time of Caesar, the Romans lived in a bilingual and pluralistic society.
People will always claim that including some such new group is the end of the world, and they will almost always be proven wrong.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
That's plain wrong. The Roman Empire didn't even reach its biggest extent until Trajan and Hadrian, in 117 AD, fifty-odd years after Nero's death.
Also, it is widely held among historians that Nero wasn't even present in Rome during the great fire, but vacationing in the countryside. He came back to Rome when news of the fire was brought to him. Oh, and the fiddle wasn't even around yet...it wouldn't be invented until 16th century Renaissance Italy, fifteen centuries after Nero.
Uh HELLO! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. 117 AD!
And yes, they were still a huge presence, BUT THEY WERE NO LONGER THE WORLDS CONQUERORS.
Like "Captain Jack Sparrow" said to the Commander in 'Pirates of the Carribean' when he said "You have to be the WORST PIRATE I've ever heard of"
Captain Jack Sparrow's response was, "BUT you have heard of me!"
THAT'S WHY I USED THE EUPHEMISM "Nero fiddled while Rome burned". BECAUSE EVERYONE has heard of that statement. Well, MOST people over the age of thirty have. Even I KNOW that statement IS NOT TRUE, but is an excellent example of one liners based in history.
And who did NERO BLAME for the burning of ROME?
Yes, you in the back? ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! THE CHRISTIANS WERE THE ROMAN SCAPEGOAT. Just like the Christian are being blamed for all the problems with the MUSLIMS now.
And unless I'm MISTAKEN, THE GREEKS broke the back of the PERSIAN EMPIRE. Or are you UNAWARE of what HAPPENED AFTER King Leonidas said, "MOLON LABE"? The Greeks crushed the million mom march of Xerxes. Which most consider the begining of the end of the Persian empire. The Romans just finished the job the Greeks began.
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Now see, I think that's the point. THAT WE DO NEED TO SAVE AMERICA.
The real question is how. As we have been leaders on the world stage for well over 100 years, the question is how do we remain there?
I don't have a good answer, but allowing ourselves to be overrun by our neighbors who are going to sink our 'social welfare/retirement' system by people have not put anything into our country, our way of life or that system.
If that seems OK to everyone else, then so be it. I just think AMERICA DOES NEED SAVING. So did the Minute Men, bless their pointed patriotic souls.
Having said that, with the death of my parents generation (WWII generation), and then the death of MY generation (the Baby Boomers), our country will have lost over 100 million citizens in a period of less than forty years (2050 at the latest) and we are currently at a net growth loss when it comes to babies being born. SO we will need a large influx of bodies just to keep our 'ship of state' afloat, much less continuing to grow in a positive manner.
I guess the question will be, "In forty five years, WHAT WILL BE the official language of the United States of America?". Will there be a USA to worry about? Who knows. I'll probably be dead by then anyway, so it's NOT going to be my problem by then...
BUT I still say we need to save America.
The real question is how. As we have been leaders on the world stage for well over 100 years, the question is how do we remain there?
I don't have a good answer, but allowing ourselves to be overrun by our neighbors who are going to sink our 'social welfare/retirement' system by people have not put anything into our country, our way of life or that system.
If that seems OK to everyone else, then so be it. I just think AMERICA DOES NEED SAVING. So did the Minute Men, bless their pointed patriotic souls.
Having said that, with the death of my parents generation (WWII generation), and then the death of MY generation (the Baby Boomers), our country will have lost over 100 million citizens in a period of less than forty years (2050 at the latest) and we are currently at a net growth loss when it comes to babies being born. SO we will need a large influx of bodies just to keep our 'ship of state' afloat, much less continuing to grow in a positive manner.
I guess the question will be, "In forty five years, WHAT WILL BE the official language of the United States of America?". Will there be a USA to worry about? Who knows. I'll probably be dead by then anyway, so it's NOT going to be my problem by then...
BUT I still say we need to save America.
MeekAndMild
New member
Not to worry about language. It is a changable thing and if you don't believe it try reading books by Washington Irving or plays by Shakespeare. In a hundred years we will assimilate the Mexicans and their language. English already has components of Dutch, French, Danish, Gaelic, Latin and a dozen other languages so why quibble about Spanish?
The downfall of America will be its policies related to centralization of the food and energy distribution systems. No country can remain free unless its individuals are independent and small towns are full of independent people. (edited for clarity on Sunday)
America of the 40's had several million family farms, plus 20 million home gardens and millions of guys trained as mechanics, shoemakers, blacksmiths and related tradesmen. America of the 00's has EBT cards and SSI.
"Blow up your TV throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try an find Jesus on your own" -- John Prine
The downfall of America will be its policies related to centralization of the food and energy distribution systems. No country can remain free unless its individuals are independent and small towns are full of independent people. (edited for clarity on Sunday)
America of the 40's had several million family farms, plus 20 million home gardens and millions of guys trained as mechanics, shoemakers, blacksmiths and related tradesmen. America of the 00's has EBT cards and SSI.
"Blow up your TV throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try an find Jesus on your own" -- John Prine
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novus collectus
Moderator
MeekandMild,
Don't know if your hypothesis is correct in the quote, but it is food for thought. At the very least, it may be a contributing factor to how our society evolves.
I do strongly agree with your first paragraph where you talk about eventual assimilation of immigrant citizens' language/culture into American society.
Boss Spearman
New member
Welfare and Social Security are not investment based systems. You don't get back what you put in. Social Security originally was a horizontal Ponzi scheme with the retirement age set high enough that those who paid into it outnumbered those who would get to collect it by a sufficient margin to cover.
This was changed by lowering the retirement age so the working young paid the retirement of their elders, but that only works as long as the population and employment are growing.
Welfare is nothing more than social engineering. Supposedly it takes from those who have more than enough and gives to those who have less than enough. In practice, it impoverishes the lower middle class and leaves the poorest of the poor as helpless dependents of government handouts.
Both systems should be ended, they do not perform the job they are supposed to.
They are used to buy votes. Population gain from immigration, legal or otherwise, is not nearly as significant as the dramatic underfunding that occurs on the downslope of a population boom. This is made worse by tough economic times. As unemployment rises, demand on the system increases, and supply of funds decrease.
In practice social security, medicare, and medicaid taxes go into the General Fund just like the rest of your income tax. They are paid out from the General Fund.
This was changed by lowering the retirement age so the working young paid the retirement of their elders, but that only works as long as the population and employment are growing.
Welfare is nothing more than social engineering. Supposedly it takes from those who have more than enough and gives to those who have less than enough. In practice, it impoverishes the lower middle class and leaves the poorest of the poor as helpless dependents of government handouts.
Both systems should be ended, they do not perform the job they are supposed to.
They are used to buy votes. Population gain from immigration, legal or otherwise, is not nearly as significant as the dramatic underfunding that occurs on the downslope of a population boom. This is made worse by tough economic times. As unemployment rises, demand on the system increases, and supply of funds decrease.
In practice social security, medicare, and medicaid taxes go into the General Fund just like the rest of your income tax. They are paid out from the General Fund.
Boss Spearman,
Close but no cigar. The change was people started living longer. In 1933 the retirement age was 65. The life expectancy of men was 52 and the life expectancy of women was 58. SO it was DESIGNED NOT TO PAY OUT.
IF as we started living longer the retirement age WERE RAISED, say to 85 before you get any money, EVERYONE would provide for their OWN welfare during retirement. That would put us about where the system started at. With a retirement age of 85 and a life expectancy for men at 75 and life expectancy for women at 80, the system as it was originally designed would be back in balance...
But there would be a revolt of all those boomers who are expecting to collect on their 'poor man's trust fund', SSI...
Boss Spearman
New member
How do you find that info? I was told the retirement age originally was lower than 65, and as mortality rates increased, it increased.
MeekAndMild
New member
For background read Carrol Quigley's The Evolution of Civilizations and Marvin Harris' Why Nothing Works then consider what would happen to any city of over a hundred thousand population if the underclass couldn't buy their groceries for a month.
novus collectus
Moderator
It wasn't a challenge but an honest opinion that I really don't know if your hypothesis is correct since I have never really thought of it in detail
.What are the publishers of those books? I may check them out when I get back from Europe because the concept intrigues me.
Thanks in advance.
MeekAndMild
Whereas the Dutch and the French etc were forced to assimilate; many Mexicans are being encouraged not to with bilingual or exclusively Spanish language and print at institutional levels both public and private. Be it the local bank, school, or exclusively Spanish TV and radio, press etc.
Whereas Germans (for example) who dominated some small communities have their little town Oktoberfest once a year and other former cultural trappings learned to speak, write and work in fluent English, large numbers of Mexicans do not.
Another factor is their exceptionally large numbers that compound this problem. The Dutch, French, Irish, German, Belgium, Italian (etc) never arrived in this country in the sheers numbers Mexicans have in such a short period of time.
A similar situation exists in Europa and in places like the U.K. threatens to turn them into minorities in their own land. Not just racially, but culturally as well. Ask anyone who lives in Bradford or Leeds, or any number of other cities. This is also evident some of the other Euro provinces.
For a prime example of the net result, look no further than the Balkans.
Right; this is a significant economic as well as cultural factor. The antithesis of the centralized bread basket and imported food, and a manufacturing base with people skilled in making things out of metal, wood etc.
The cultural problem is much deeper than language alone. Whereas europeans have assimilated quickly this is not happening with a large number of Mexicans.
Whereas the Dutch and the French etc were forced to assimilate; many Mexicans are being encouraged not to with bilingual or exclusively Spanish language and print at institutional levels both public and private. Be it the local bank, school, or exclusively Spanish TV and radio, press etc.
Whereas Germans (for example) who dominated some small communities have their little town Oktoberfest once a year and other former cultural trappings learned to speak, write and work in fluent English, large numbers of Mexicans do not.
Another factor is their exceptionally large numbers that compound this problem. The Dutch, French, Irish, German, Belgium, Italian (etc) never arrived in this country in the sheers numbers Mexicans have in such a short period of time.
A similar situation exists in Europa and in places like the U.K. threatens to turn them into minorities in their own land. Not just racially, but culturally as well. Ask anyone who lives in Bradford or Leeds, or any number of other cities. This is also evident some of the other Euro provinces.
For a prime example of the net result, look no further than the Balkans.
MeekAndMild
New member
I didn't take it as a challenge, just offering some more info about how somebody could come up with such an idea.
Carroll Quigley's The Evolution of Civilizations was published by Liberty Fund Inc, 8335 Allison Pointe Trail, Suite 300, Indianapolis, IN, 46250-1684
Marvin Harris' book, Why Nothing Works: The Anthropology of Daily Life Was published by Simon and Schuster.
I'd recommend that one borrow them by interlibrary loan or buy them used from amazon.com Actually Quigley's book is better; Harris has a couple of other good ones Patterns of Race in the Americas and Good to Eat: Riddles of Food and Culture.
On second thought you're going to worry anyway, so I'll let you in on the secret weapon. American hybrid corn has much more sugar than teosinte and maize. We will kill them off with diabetes, gallstones and heart disease in a generation or two.
Carroll Quigley's The Evolution of Civilizations was published by Liberty Fund Inc, 8335 Allison Pointe Trail, Suite 300, Indianapolis, IN, 46250-1684
Marvin Harris' book, Why Nothing Works: The Anthropology of Daily Life Was published by Simon and Schuster.
I'd recommend that one borrow them by interlibrary loan or buy them used from amazon.com Actually Quigley's book is better; Harris has a couple of other good ones Patterns of Race in the Americas and Good to Eat: Riddles of Food and Culture.
Not to worry. This has happened before. It took a couple of hundred years before the Danes disappeared into the mainstream English culture. I suppose if things get really bad we could resurrect some Aztec sun worship rituals.
On second thought you're going to worry anyway, so I'll let you in on the secret weapon. American hybrid corn has much more sugar than teosinte and maize. We will kill them off with diabetes, gallstones and heart disease in a generation or two.
shootinstudent
New member
I see this claim made often, but never with any proof. Immigrants have always had a tough time assimilating and speaking perfect english. This happened with italians, eastern europeans, germans, and a host of other groups. As they have children in the US, those children assimilate very well. There's likely not a single second generation hispanic kid in america who doesn't speak english.
I'd like to see some evidence showing that new generations born to mexican parents in America are any less likely to learn the language than previous groups, if you're going to continue with this claim.
I do not see any exclusively German, Dutch, French, Polish, Swedish, Danish, Russian, Japanese or Chinese language local TV stations, newspapers, magazines. Nor hear any such radio stations for that matter. Neither are any of these on the phone menu that I have to wade through when I call the bank or a plethora of other institutions and agencies.
novus collectus
Moderator
Ever been to New York City?
Yes, albeit many years ago.
And we know that New York City is not quite a typical rendition of the rest of the entire United States.
But just out of curiosity then .... how many exclusively Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Yugoslavian, Austrian, German, Dutch, French, Belgium, Polish, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Ukranian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Belarusian, Moldovian language locally broadcast TV stations are there in NYC?
And we know that New York City is not quite a typical rendition of the rest of the entire United States.
But just out of curiosity then .... how many exclusively Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian, Yugoslavian, Austrian, German, Dutch, French, Belgium, Polish, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Ukranian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Belarusian, Moldovian language locally broadcast TV stations are there in NYC?
novus collectus
Moderator
Aaahh, but LAK you included newspapers, radio stations and magazines in the other post. I don't know of any broadcast TV stations that are totally dedicated, but there are plenty of them on cable. Plenty of radio stations in parts of the country that are not in NY and are not Spanish but some other immigrant American language (and IIRC a French station as well for non-immigrant French speaking Americans).
There are also many cities in America that have bilingual street signs for a section of the city......Chinatown. Most of the immigrants children speak English and almost all of the grandchildren do. The children, more often than not nation wide, assimilate into our culture. In exchange, our culture retains some aspects of the Chinatown cultures from many parts of Asia. It is all part of America. Now I agree that ther might be a bigger influx of immigrants from the Americas that is bigger than any other immigration influx, but if we can control the rampant influx or eliminate all (or most) illegal migration, then everyone will eventually speak English again but with a few more foreign words added in our vocabulary.
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