Regular_Joe
Inactive
I guess it depends on what kind of baton you are carrying...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/05/01/mxp.baton.defense.cnn
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/05/01/mxp.baton.defense.cnn
How to carry a baton?
- Thread starter Beaninlv
- Start date
Baton, huh? My baton is on my raid vest. I certainly don't carry it off-duty.
If I were some ninja with significant training who felt somehow unarmed without a baton, I'd probably carry a 3AAA flashlight or something similar. They make pretty good improvised non-lethal weapons and also have other uses (obviously).
If you had enough training to be carrying a baton at anytime (on-duty or off-duty) you'd know why some people carry crossdraw and others carry strongside. If you don't, you need to get the training.
I can't think of any reason I'd advise a civilian to carry a baton, but perhaps I'm biased against them.
My baton is on my raid vest. I certainly don't carry it off-duty. If I were some ninja with significant training who felt somehow unarmed without a baton, I'd probably carry a 3AAA flashlight or something similar. They make pretty good improvised non-lethal weapons and also have other uses (obviously).
If you had enough training to be carrying a baton at anytime (on-duty or off-duty) you'd know why some people carry crossdraw and others carry strongside. If you don't, you need to get the training.
I can't think of any reason I'd advise a civilian to carry a baton, but perhaps I'm biased against them.
BlackFeather
New member
kmar40 said:
Mine worked well on dogs and certainly felt better than nothing. I carry a knife, no gun. Never felt the need for a gun when I have something more useful. The baton seemed a bit much without a reason so I stopped carrying it. I agree most people don't need it but for others it can be very beneficial. I am a firm believer that all should be proficient in at least the basics of most commonly encountered weapons in the off chance you need to defend against such a weapon.
Batons or impact weapons...
In general, I do not carry or use a baton or impact weapon but I could see the value of using it under limited conditions.
I and many other sworn LEOs, guards, corrections, SFs/MPs, etc know what an annoying pain it can be lug around a full size baton or PR-24.
I do like the ASP 21" and some compact style PR-24 units.
I'd carry an impact weapon in a 360 degree rotation type holder of kydex or man made material. www.galls.com www.policehq.com sell different brands.
In general, I do not carry or use a baton or impact weapon but I could see the value of using it under limited conditions.
I and many other sworn LEOs, guards, corrections, SFs/MPs, etc know what an annoying pain it can be lug around a full size baton or PR-24.
I do like the ASP 21" and some compact style PR-24 units.
I'd carry an impact weapon in a 360 degree rotation type holder of kydex or man made material. www.galls.com www.policehq.com sell different brands.
Now why in Texas can you not carry a club around? There are some good reasons as to why someone might want to carry a club or a Taser. For example, imagine you are the manager of a Papa Johns making the nightly drop at the safe deposit box.
I could go on and on with different examples. There are some people who need a greater level of protection then just their hands. They may not be comfortable with a pistol and so they choose a club-like weapon.
I am disappointed that Texas has such liberal laws on concealed carry of pistols, but cant give their citizens the right to carry a club or baton. Waving around a baton or club could give someone a little extra time to retreat.
Whenever I need some extra training, then I turn to youtube because there are lots of experts on there. This guy has a good point. Use the ASP baton like a whip, not a bat. The key is to get the first 2-3 inches on the target and then snap it back into ready position. The idea is to make the target go away. If they come near you, then you snap the 2-3 inches down on them inflicting pain and then get back into ready position to inflict more pain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux2eoJG3lRI
I could go on and on with different examples. There are some people who need a greater level of protection then just their hands. They may not be comfortable with a pistol and so they choose a club-like weapon.
I am disappointed that Texas has such liberal laws on concealed carry of pistols, but cant give their citizens the right to carry a club or baton. Waving around a baton or club could give someone a little extra time to retreat.
Whenever I need some extra training, then I turn to youtube because there are lots of experts on there. This guy has a good point. Use the ASP baton like a whip, not a bat. The key is to get the first 2-3 inches on the target and then snap it back into ready position. The idea is to make the target go away. If they come near you, then you snap the 2-3 inches down on them inflicting pain and then get back into ready position to inflict more pain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux2eoJG3lRI
Last edited:
Glenn_Dee said:
The old days? You sound like a former LEO.
Most departments don't prescribe the positioning of the gear on your duty belt. They will, however, prohibit certain practices they don't want officers to do -- crossdraw holster, handcuffs on the front of the belt, exposed ammo, magazine carriers must be vertical, etc.
Most of the time, an officer is relatively free to decide what works best for her/him. And truth be told, today there isn't a lot of variation in relative positioning of the ton of crap they have to carry.
usaign said:
Some years ago, here in California, carrying a baton (or nunchucks, shirken stars, dirks, daggers, saps, etc.) was a felony charge, while carrying a concealed handgun was only a misdemeanor on the first offense. It's not rocket science to figure out why.
Look at the difference in use of the two weapons. A gun is loud and it's use is considered deadly force and/or attempted homicide. It leaves behind evidence (bullet, casing) that can be traced to that weapon.
A club/baton on the other hand, is nearly silent. On the human body, it leaves little trace evidence that is unique to that weapon. It is also easily discarded or obtained/made. It's the better choice for a thug to use on an unsuspecting citizen walking alone. And while it can kill, using it right can be nearly permanently disabling without the noise of a firearm.
OK..
Yes I am a retired police officer. I have carried an impact weapon for my entire career. Now I carry one once in a while when doing security details.
Unlike many... I got to try out various impact weapons in ahhh some stressfull situations.
Impact weapons like firearms have their own niche within the force continum.
I have been trained in, and used
ASP Colapsable baton ... Not very impressed with the intimidation factor or the results. IMO the asp is a law suit waiting to happen for any civilian.
PR24 Side handle baton. Not a bad tool but still essentially a night stick. Requires much training, and a lot of memory space. Requires too much decision making during the fight. Unless of course you use it as a night stick. I have been beaten with PR24's They dont really hurt when used properly. Just ask Rodeney King.
Night stick. Nice window dressing if it's made of pine. If it's a cocobolo, or ironwood stick. You have yourself a weapon that will work every time. Minimal training needed. ( you need to be tought where NOT to hit someone)
Intimidation factor is very high... It's just a piece of wood. No one will ever doubt that getting hit with a piece of wood will hurt. No one wants to get hit with a piece of wood. Plastic?, a little rod? Not so scary. Night sticks are easier to retain, and much easier to transition to your hand gun, and retain control over the impact weapon. Can you tell I prefer the night stick?...lol
Day stick ( for you real old timers) Or rubber trunchion. The ones we had were hollow, and could be filled with the weighted substance of choice. But pretty much useless. But you needed one to get a uniform check.
Black-Jack, or Weighted slapper. Dangerous tools. Too easy to use enough force to cave in a skull. Those guys who trained me, and others like me are all but gone now. This is truely a tool for professionals, and thugs. I wouldnt recomend any civilian carrying one... But... If you must... nothing works better. In some jurisdictions they are listed as deadly weapons.
4 Cell maglite. IMO not such a good idea for a policeman. But an exelent idea for a civilian. Hey it's a flashlight. OK so it's a 12" long weighted metal flashlight... but It's still a flashlight. It's not intimidating it's a flashlight... but it is intimidating. It's not a dedicated impact weapon... But it sure will do the job of one. I think it may be easier to explain hitting someone with a flashlight than it would a professional police tool.
Just my own experiences. maybe someone else will chime in with their own.
Glenn Dee
Yes I am a retired police officer. I have carried an impact weapon for my entire career. Now I carry one once in a while when doing security details.
Unlike many... I got to try out various impact weapons in ahhh some stressfull situations.
Impact weapons like firearms have their own niche within the force continum.
I have been trained in, and used
ASP Colapsable baton ... Not very impressed with the intimidation factor or the results. IMO the asp is a law suit waiting to happen for any civilian.
PR24 Side handle baton. Not a bad tool but still essentially a night stick. Requires much training, and a lot of memory space. Requires too much decision making during the fight. Unless of course you use it as a night stick. I have been beaten with PR24's They dont really hurt when used properly. Just ask Rodeney King.
Night stick. Nice window dressing if it's made of pine. If it's a cocobolo, or ironwood stick. You have yourself a weapon that will work every time. Minimal training needed. ( you need to be tought where NOT to hit someone)
Intimidation factor is very high... It's just a piece of wood. No one will ever doubt that getting hit with a piece of wood will hurt. No one wants to get hit with a piece of wood. Plastic?, a little rod? Not so scary. Night sticks are easier to retain, and much easier to transition to your hand gun, and retain control over the impact weapon. Can you tell I prefer the night stick?...lol
Day stick ( for you real old timers) Or rubber trunchion. The ones we had were hollow, and could be filled with the weighted substance of choice. But pretty much useless. But you needed one to get a uniform check.
Black-Jack, or Weighted slapper. Dangerous tools. Too easy to use enough force to cave in a skull. Those guys who trained me, and others like me are all but gone now. This is truely a tool for professionals, and thugs. I wouldnt recomend any civilian carrying one... But... If you must... nothing works better. In some jurisdictions they are listed as deadly weapons.
4 Cell maglite. IMO not such a good idea for a policeman. But an exelent idea for a civilian. Hey it's a flashlight. OK so it's a 12" long weighted metal flashlight... but It's still a flashlight. It's not intimidating it's a flashlight... but it is intimidating. It's not a dedicated impact weapon... But it sure will do the job of one. I think it may be easier to explain hitting someone with a flashlight than it would a professional police tool.
Just my own experiences. maybe someone else will chime in with their own.
Glenn Dee
nefprotector
Moderator
why is it that I got drilled for asking this very same question?
Yep. As it turns out, slapping someone with 20 ounces of aluminum really isn't disabling. Yeah, I know, use the last 1/3 and hit the nerve bundles. Works great. Unless the bad-guy is moving... like when fighting. Or he's on meth, coke, or any of 1000 other drugs.
It's so freakin lawyer-proof that it's damn near useless, yet LOOKS horrendous when someone tapes you using it.
It was a waste of weight on my belt. I don't carry the aluminum whiffle bat other than for mandatory training.
I prefer to carry my asp right behind my sidearm. If some thing is about to go down, my strong hand is on the grip of my weapon. It's an easy move to move my hand back to get the asp. I feel weakside is to much movement, since I prefer to use it with my stronghand. In training we have to use both, strong and weak, but im not comfortable with the weakhand. For what it's worth, I carry my O.C. right in front of my sidearm, which is able to be deployed by strong or weakhand.
I think having to justify using any self defense tool as a civilian with a clean background record is absurd. I have a concealed handgun permit. My state does not piggyback other weapons to that like FL, AZ and others do. Do I carry impact weapons...damn right. Why? Because not every defensive encounter demands a firearm, because I would like a less than lethal option, because I don't like fistfights and don't plan on fighting fair if I am made to join one. I don't like the knife option and I carry several "other use" impact weapons and at times legitamate LEATHER SAPS. I own a backjack, but have decided for the time being that it would be too hard to explain to LEO even if I was justified and the potential for caved in skull is too real.
It looks like this is working pretty well for her:
Collapsable batons can beome a lethal weapon if you don't know where to strike someone with them. Before OC/CS spray they were one of the few effective non lethal methods to subdue someone resisting arrest.
As a civilian the circumstances where you'd be authorized in arresting someone are very limited.
Carrying a baton off duty is pretty extreme, and carrying a baton without the proper training is pretty reckless.
The word that I haven't seen used on this thread yet is "bludgeon". If you recognize the negative connotations to that word you have a reason to. bludgeons are notgenerally considered defensive in nature, and carrying any sort of clup, sap, baton, etc wakes a strong case for you possessing offensive intent.
Collapsable batons can beome a lethal weapon if you don't know where to strike someone with them. Before OC/CS spray they were one of the few effective non lethal methods to subdue someone resisting arrest.
As a civilian the circumstances where you'd be authorized in arresting someone are very limited.
Carrying a baton off duty is pretty extreme, and carrying a baton without the proper training is pretty reckless.
The word that I haven't seen used on this thread yet is "bludgeon". If you recognize the negative connotations to that word you have a reason to. bludgeons are notgenerally considered defensive in nature, and carrying any sort of clup, sap, baton, etc wakes a strong case for you possessing offensive intent.
BlackFeather
New member
I may not have as much experience in actual confrontations but, I agree with Glen Dee, aside from the off-hand carry but I'm no LEO. However, for civilian carry I preferred the Collapsible baton. Sure, I could carry a large stick and it's legal, but something smaller is much preferred. As for the weapon being a lawsuit waiting to happen, look at it this way, if you miss you most likely aren't going to hit anyone else. Sure, "bludgeon" sounds worse, but I feel more comfortable defending myself within a small area as opposed to worrying about hurting someone innocent. That and you can't tell me that a "semi-automatic 9mm pistol" sounds any better.
Again, on carrying your baton, it should be what is most comfortable but easy to retain and put into use.
Again, on carrying your baton, it should be what is most comfortable but easy to retain and put into use.
http://www.d3protection.com/17.html
for those who can legally carry, or those who will take their chances...this guy's stuff is truly artwork. I have a few pieces and they are great. TN, FL, AZ to name a few are legal
for those who can legally carry, or those who will take their chances...this guy's stuff is truly artwork. I have a few pieces and they are great. TN, FL, AZ to name a few are legal
Edward429451
Moderator
I'm no Bruce Lee and I had no prob controlling what turned out to be a drunk CPD officer with a PR-24. I worked a couple years at private security until I realized I had skills, lol.
I carried it offhand. I still have it but would never carry it...except in the truck. It's a great item to have in the truck. Very innocuous until needed then most of the time nobody wants to road rage anymore when they see it.
I carried it offhand. I still have it but would never carry it...except in the truck. It's a great item to have in the truck. Very innocuous until needed then most of the time nobody wants to road rage anymore when they see it.