How Times Have Changed

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
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This is some pretty nebulous English, isn't it?

By today's American English, it might be trying to say that congress shall make no law showing any respect to any established religion.

It might mean congress shall make no law affecting an existing, established religion.

It might also mean congress shall make no law affecting the establishment of new religions.

So maybe that sleeping dog should be left to lie.

Notice, however, that there's nothing said about what the executive or the judiciary can do that's related to religion. I would imagine that to mean that if you get excessive in shoving your religious..um..stuff in my face I could legally put a stop to it via the police and the courts.

Interestingly, that seems to be exactly how things are working out.
 
Wikpedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Holiday
'In the United States, a Federal holiday is a holiday recognized by the United States Government. Non-essential federal government offices are closed. Banks are generally closed as well. All federal employees are paid for the holiday; those who are required to work on the holiday receive wages for that day in addition to holiday pay."

"Federal law does not compel states to recognize these days in any way. Most states do use the same holidays, however, for their employees as well as their public schools. Neither does the federal government recognize state and local holidays, although some offices may close as circumstances dictate."

If you have a gripe complain to your state. No one is making them observe the holiday.

Would you cry foul if Congress made Ramadan a national holiday? What about Yom Kippur?
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Not at all if Muslims and Jewish folks had A. founded this country or b. were the majority. Newsflash, this country was founded with Christian values. Funny thing is that I'm not Christian, I'm atheist and it doesn't bother me in the least that we have Christian holidays, it bothers me that people can't pray in school if they choose, and that the pledge of allegiance is viewed as evil by some.
I was raised protestant, had perfect attendance at Sunday school for 5 years, my sister graduated from Oral Roberts University, but this debate may drive me back to the church. Especially now that I know religion bothers some people so much.


I would love to have Ramadan off as a paid holiday. Do you happen to know how long Ramadan lasts? (facetious comment for Doug:D )


Edit: Just to save you some time Ramadan this year began Sept 23, 24 or 25 depending on the country you are in and lasted until Oct 22 or 23 depending on the country you are in.
 
Redworm said:
Would you cry foul if Congress made Ramadan a national holiday? What about Yom Kippur?
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Wouldn't bother me in the least.. that is why folks originally came here to the New World:
religious freedom.

You won't find that fact in the new secular progressive history books by the way.
 
Not at all if Muslims and Jewish folks had A. founded this country or b. were the majority. Newsflash, this country was founded with Christian values. Funny thing is that I'm not Christian, I'm atheist and it doesn't bother me in the least that we have Christian holidays, it bothers me that people can't pray in school if they choose, and that the pledge of allegiance is viewed as evil by some.
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What about the religion of the slaves that were used to build this country from the ground up? Would this country have prospered and survived had it not been for them? Shouldn't they get the same benefit for their contribution?

No one is banned from praying in school. Teachers are barred from leading children prayer because you know full well parents would throw a fit if a muslim teacher led her students in prayer.

WHo views the pledge as evil? The argument against it is that "under god" was never in the original version, added during the red scare and completely invalidated the pledge as a whole. But you'd be hard pressed to find large groups of people claiming that it's evil. :rolleyes:
I was raised protestant, had perfect attendance at Sunday school for 5 years, my sister graduated from Oral Roberts University, but this debate may drive me back to the church. Especially now that I know religion bothers some people so much.


I would love to have Ramadan off as a paid holiday. Do you happen to know how long Ramadan lasts? (facetious comment for Doug )
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Yeah, only we'd have to cater to all religions. All of them. Wiccans and pagans and hindus and rastas and jedis and unitarians and scientologists as well as all the minor fringe religions that most of us have never heard of.
 
Wouldn't bother me in the least.. that is why folks originally came here to the New World:
religious freedom.

You won't find that fact in the new secular progressive history books by the way.
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Like I asked in my previous post, would you be willing to give every single religion their own federal holiday? Do you realize how many religions are represented in America?

Oh and many of those folks came here because they were kicked out, not just for religious freedom.

My history books and history books today tell us that they came for religious freedom as oppossed to being forcefully banished due to their beliefs. What history books have you been reading?
 
WHo views the pledge as evil? The argument against it is that "under god" was never in the original version, added during the red scare and completely invalidated the pledge as a whole. But you'd be hard pressed to find large groups of people claiming that it's evil.
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The argument is also that some religions (Jehovah's Witnesses, specifically) don't allow their adherents to swear loyalty to anything but God. Which means that either A) they have to break one of the tenets of their religion or B) they have to be singled out for not doing so. Which, especially in places like elementary school (which is generally the only place the pledge is even done anymore) is just a recipe for ridicule and bullying.

At least this is the argument of why it shouldn't be done in an organized fashion, such as in school. Which is about the only time you'll see it done anymore...I can't remember the last time (aside from last night, on Colbert) that I saw the Pledge done anywhere outside a school setting.

Hence the reason my wife (an elementary school teacher) doesn't do the Pledge, and wouldn't even if "under God" were removed.
 
Redworm said:
Like I asked in my previous post, would you be willing to give every single religion their own federal holiday? Do you realize how many religions are represented in America?
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We give precedence to the Christian faith since it is, by far, represented by the most Americans by almost a 10:1 percentage... but even with such an overwhelming majority of Christians we are more than open to the idea of religious freedom for one and all...

Redworm said:
Oh and many of those folks came here because they were kicked out, not just for religious freedom.
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Oh? How many on the Mayflower were "kicked out"? I thought the correct term was persecuted?
 
We give precedence to the Christian faith since it is, by far, represented by the most Americans by almost a 10:1 percentage... but even with such an overwhelming majority of Christians we are more than open to the idea of religious freedom for one and all...
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Close.

Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

According to the CIA World Factbook.

That doesn't justify preferential treatment. If by the end of the century there are twice as many Muslims in the US than there are Christians does that mean they should get preferential treatment? I don't believe so.

Oh? How many on the Mayflower were "kicked out"? I thought the correct term was persecuted?
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Yeah, persecution. Point is not everyone left willingly. They didn't just come here looking for a better life, to live in peace. Some came because they had to, some came because they saw opportunity. Many came for religious freedom and in that religious freedom they saw a justification to exterminate natives that didn't want to convert or fork over land they'd been living on for thousands of years. Oops.
 
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