How The British See US - A Must Read

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Mike H

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Gentlemen,

I lifted the following from "The Times" dated yesterday Thursday 28th April, which I picked up a copy of today (two bucks for a newspaper !). Much of the editorial and many of the column inches were devoted to the continued handwringing of the British over the Tony Martin (Farmer & pump action shotgun versus 2 burglars) murder conviction.

Read on....

Police Chief Fears US Levels Of Violence

A Chief Constable yesterday rejected William Hague's call for an overhaul of the law on self defence with a warning that it would bring American levels of violence to Britain.
Also citing Japan as an example he went on, in Japan the Martin case is unlikely to have happened because virtually no households keep firearms. Japanese laws on guns are much stricter than those in Britain and other Western countries. As a consequence, Japan has the lowest rate of death involving firearms among industrialised nations - 0.07 per cent per 100,000 people, compared with 0.57 in the UK and an incredible 13.7 per cent in America (1997 figures). Crispian Strachan, Chief Constable of Northumbria, who heads one of the five biggest forces in England and Wales, feared that offering greater legal protection to householders who tackled intruders could generate new levels of assault and killing. The Chief Constable said he had heard of comparisons being made with the United States where there is a slightly lower rate of domestic burglary but a very high rate of violent crime. Mr Strachan said that he believed that the difference was due to the right of Americans to defend themselves at all costs and said, "I would not want to see that here"

Mike H
 
According to Gill Marshall-Andrews, Chairwoman of the U.K. group Gun Control Network "The hallmark of a civilized society is one in which people hand over their right of self defense to the State."

i.e. It would be very civilized of me to not defend myself while the nice man rapes me and slits my throat, but rather just lie there and wait for the forces of law & order to show up with the big green Ziploc and rolls of yellow ribbon.

I believe I'll remain an uncouth barbarian, if that's civilization.

Winston Churchill, Henry V, Richard Couer d'Lion, and Arturus must be spinning in their graves at the words of Mr. Strachan, Couer d'Poulet...

------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited April 28, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited April 28, 2000).]
 
13.7% per 100,000?

And I thought OUR reporters were bad!

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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

"If God had not wanted them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep." -- Bad guy from the Magnificent Seven.

"Don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blow." -- Bob Dylan
 
Switzerland has approximately 7 Million inhabitants and some 192
murders a year. And we have a gross homicide rate of 2.74 per 10000.
And this includes knives, screwdrivers, batons etc.

Every year, 30 people are killed with a gun in a way the homicide
statistic recognizes (ie: manslaughter, murder second & first degree,
negligent homicide).

And we also sport a damn high gun rate in this country.

Pure coincidence? Burglars just get what they deserve here. And
muggers are actually so afraid that they only go after foreigners.
Swiss still carry. Wether with a permit, or not, is not relevant.

Recently, a 95 year old guy made quite short work of three guys who
wanted to rob him on his remote farm. The guys did not know until too
late he also owned a parabellum pistol in good condition.
 
No kidding - 13 % ? Propaganda is as universal as the UN.



[This message has been edited by scud (edited April 28, 2000).]
 
If the Limeys want to have to lie down and spread their cheeks for anyone with the balls to break into their "castle" thats their problem. Self defense is a GOD given right. In this feminized, sissified world you really stand out as a nut job if you stand up for yourself. F*ckin sad.
 
Long but worth the read.
January 16 2000 BRITAIN

©
Armed force: police are worried at the escalation of gun crimes,
including
gang shootings

Killings rise as 3m illegal guns flood Britain
Jon Ungoed-Thomas

UP TO 3m illegal guns are in circulation in Britain, leading to a rise
in
drive-by shootings and gangland-style executions, new figures have
revealed.
Police are concerned that the amnesty after the massacre of
schoolchildren
in
Dunblane in 1996, which led to 200,000 weapons being handed in, has
failed
to
dent the underworld's supply of pistols and revolvers.

Criminals have maintained a steady flow of smuggled guns from eastern
Europe,
exhibition weapons reactivated in illegal "factories" run by underworld
dealers, and guns stolen from private collections.

The estimate that 3m guns are illegally held in the UK - made by
researchers
collecting evidence for a parliamentary inquiry into the gun trade - is
far
higher than previously thought. The vast stockpiles of weapons have
fuelled
the recent spate of shootings in cities including London, Birmingham and

Manchester, where a 17-year-old was killed last week.

Research suggests that in some areas a third of young criminals, classed
as
those aged 15 to 25 with convictions, own or have access to guns ranging

from
Beretta sub-machineguns to Luger pistols, which can be bought from
underworld
dealers for as little as £200.

"There is a move from the pistol and the shotgun to automatic weapons,"
said
Detective Superintendent Keith Hudson, of the national crime squad. "We
are
recovering weapons that are relatively new - and sometimes still in
their
boxes - from eastern European countries."

In London there were more than 20 fatal shootings last year allegedly
linked
with the Yardies, gangsters who have their roots in Jamaica, compared
with
nine killings in 1998. In one, Andy Balfour, 32, was shot with a Mac 10
sub-machinegun, which can fire 20 rounds a second. He was hit eight
times.
Last July Tim Westwood, a BBC hip-hop disc jockey, was shot by a man who

opened fire on the car in which he was travelling in Kennington, south
London.

Killings in Manchester included the death last week of Gabriel
Egharevba,
17,
who was shot by a man on a motorbike in Longsight. It was the eighth
fatal
shooting in the city in seven months.

In April 1998 two youths aged 14 and 17 were shot in the same area by a
gang
with automatic machineguns. Detectives say modern weapons are fast
becoming
fashion accessories among young drug dealers protecting themselves and
their
territory. Unarmed officers say they risk confronting teenagers on
mountain
bikes brandishing automatic weapons.

In Birmingham there have been about 100 crimes a month involving
firearms
since last March, compared with 88 a month in the year ending in April
1998.
Two men were shot dead in Birmingham in separate incidents at Christmas.

Anti-gun campaigners hoped the handgun ban after Dunblane - where Thomas

Hamilton shot dead 16 children and a teacher - would reduce firearm
crime.
The latest figures, however, show crime involving weapons is on the
increase.

Home Office figures reveal that, overall, armed crime rose 10% in 1998.
There
were 13,671 armed offences compared with 12,410 the previous year.
Experts,
however, believe that only half the weapons used in armed incidents are
genuine firearms, the others being imitations.

Opponents of the handgun ban implemented after Dunblane say it has
failed
to
cut gun crime because of the multiple sources of weapons available to
the
criminal underworld. Firearms experts say more research is needed to
assess
the source of the weapons accurately.

Kate Broadhurst, a researcher at the Scarman Centre, said: "Controls on
legally held firearms are clearly unlikely to have much of an impact."

Customs officers do not believe smuggled guns account for the bulk of
criminal weapons. Criminals instead rely on reactivating decommissioned
guns,
such as the 9mm Uzi or MAC 10, or supplies from corrupt dealers.

Home Office officials insist the legislation has cut off an important
supply
of guns to the underworld. They say the handgun ban was never intended
to
combat firearms-related crime, but was a direct response to Dunblane,
which
involved legally held handguns.

"It is lunatic that a handgun ban was imposed which even the Home Office

accepts won't reduce crimes involving firearms," said Chris Price,
chairman
of the Gun Trader Association. "It's not the criminals that have
suffered,
but legitimate gun users and gun traders."


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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>According to Gill Marshall-Andrews, Chairwoman of the U.K. group Gun Control Network "The hallmark of a civilized society is one in which people hand over their right of self defense to the State."[/quote]


This woman invented this out of thin air.

Maybe she could try this one on for size:

"The hallmark of a subjugated population is one in which the people have handed over their right of self defense to the State."


- gabe
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike H:
Japanese laws on guns are much stricter than those in Britain and other Western countries. As a consequence, Japan has the lowest rate of death involving firearms [/quote]

One does not necessarily follow the other.
 
beemerb:

Eastern Europe, indeed...

Silly Brits, don't they know illicit guns are always "smuggled from Virginia"? Just ask the NYC and DC Attorney Generals, they'll tell you...

(er, 'Attorneys General'. My H.S. English teacher would have my head...)
------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited April 29, 2000).]
 
I take from all the talk about automatic weapons that when they outlaw all guns it doesn't make any difference which one you buy. Still, its kind of sad to see a people famous for their truely fine gun making traditions fall so low that they would all be running around with odd automatics for which no one claims to know the origin.
 
"They say the handgun ban was never intended
to
combat firearms-related crime, but was a direct response to Dunblane,
which
involved legally held handguns."
"It's not the criminals that have
suffered,
but legitimate gun users and gun traders."


Need I say more?
 
People, can I just suggest (respectfully) that we not be too harsh on the "average, ordinary" Pommy?

They've been bludgeoned into this despite huge protests, much as we were.

I'm no Anglophile, believe me, but I've spoken to "new arrivals" here from the UK, and they swear to God that, given a weapon, they'd use it to protect themselves or their loved ones, much as we would.

England is, I'm afraid, the classic example of the "inmates running the asylum".

B
 
...given a weapon...

Too bad they're NOT, isn't it?

Sheeple are sheeple, period. If a group lets this happen to themselves.... tough sh*t for them. Rebel and revolt. The time has come for you, hasn't it?

Oops! Nothing left to revolt WITH....

Bummer.

This post is NOT meant to be a slam. However, the sheeple of both Brtain and Oz let this happen. At one time, there WERE options. But now, with the bloody Brits demanding the surrender of AIR GUNS, and your folks getting thrown into prison on gun charges for TOY GUNS... well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that it's too late for you.

NEVER give up your guns. Ever. That's the rule. Violate it at one's peril.

----------------------

When guns are outlawed, I'll be an outlaw.

Hey, wait a sec! I already AM!

[This message has been edited by Dennis Olson (edited April 29, 2000).]
 
The sheeple of the USA are nearly as dumb as the sheeple of England and OZ, and getting dumber every day.

Battler.
 
How nauseating to see Japan held up as a good example by a LEO from Europe. Especially from England where the people once had the common sense and courage to do regicide to Charles the First.

Why is there gun control in Japan (a disarmed populace)? Because of the fuedal laws that denied arms to the peasant and commoner. Samurai and Daimyo were actually legally entitled to behead any commoner who was not subservient enough fast enough. In modern Japan the tradition of fuedalism courses on. Japan was and remains a semi-slave society. Is that really a good example for us to follow? Hell NO! A much better example would be Oliver Cromwell and the New Model Army. Who would have believed how low the English have sunk?

Doc Mac has it right, the economically developed parts of the world are becoming more and more sissified and vagin-ized.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the economically developed parts of the world are becoming more and more sissified and vagin-ized[/quote]

Jeez, Bam-Bam, being fairly "vagin-ized" myowndamself, does this mean I need to turn in my guns?

Sure hope not! ;)

------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
ROTFLMAO!!

I don't think I'd want to be the one to try to confiscate Ms. Tamara's guns!

Maybe something like "feminazi-ized", Bam Bam?
 
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