How Not To Get Shot By A Good Guy

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threegun

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Say you are holding a perp at gunpoint and a police officer, fellow CCW holder, or off duty cop decides to respond. All they see is a man holding a gun pointing it at another. You may or may not have already fired your gun further raising the responders Adrenalin. How do you prevent them from shooting you before they know who is who?

A friend of mine gave me an idea that I use today and recommend to others. I bought a badge that looks like those carried by police. In the event that I shoot someone or am holding someone at gunpoint I will hold this badge (in a black wallet style holder) high above my head. The mere sight of this badge will cause police,ccw's and other good guys to pause before shooting. I asked close to a dozen Tampa police officers, detectives and HCSO deputies if it would make them pause and they said absolutely followed by good idea. It says CWP permit so you won't get in trouble for impersonating an officer.
 
Perspective #1: CCW holding the perp at bay

Hopefully there would be time to dial 911 first and talk to them or stick it in my pocket while it is still connected. When the cops get there, drop the gun and follow all orders and don't put up a fight. They'll figure it out, there is usually a good guy and a bad guy, shouldn't be too hard.

Perspective #2: CCW holder walking up on the situation

If I arrived into that situation, hopefully I would be a little responsible and dial 911 first. Then take a good look at the situation from good cover. I would never trust anyone who just holds up a badge during a gun fight... What if they are impersonating an officer... then I would be the next victim.:(

This is a gray area that I believe would come down to actually being in the situation. Now if I had just spoken with 911 and they said that there was an officer on the scene, I would not be as leery. But then this goes back to the previous forum thread about 'Would you help an officer in a gunfight'.

Main thing, stay on your toes and keep an eye on the situation from an advantage point (preferably good cover) and don't jump in too quick.

Just a thought... Criminals do this for a living, do we have to keep giving them good ideas?:o
 
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I wouldn't hold a perp at gun point. It's not my job to detain or arrest people, only to stop a threat. So, I'd retreat to safety as soon as possible and then call the police. The exception is inside my home, where the bad guy had better do the retreating if he knows what's good for him or else he gets shot to the ground.
 
A badge that identifies you as a CWP holder? Why not get a T-shirt with a target on it that reads "shoot me first"? There's a reason why it's a CONCEALED weapon.
 
A badge that identifies you as a CWP holder? Why not get a T-shirt with a target on it that reads "shoot me first"? There's a reason why it's a CONCEALED weapon.
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I believe the badge is supposed to be concealed as well, until needed, not pinned on the person's shirt all day. Though that would be rather humorous.
 
Guys you carry the "badge" in your pocket and remove it when you need it.

That's the world's dumbest idea...IMHO.
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When you get involved in a shoot out and are forced to cover the bad guy it might save your life. Since off duty cops occassionally get shot by the good guys it will make the good guys pause thus giving them time to find out whats going on. Officers from two agencies say it will work on them and its a great idea.

I would never trust anyone who just holds up a badge during a gun fight... What if they are impersonating an officer... then I would be the next victim.
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But you wouldn't shoot that person without making sure either which is the desired effect.

You have a good idea. Unfortunately in my neighborhood they wood arrest me for impersonating.
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Sorry to hear that. Here in Tampa, Fl. the officers I talked to said that as long as I don't claim to be a cop I'm good. All I have done is removed and displayed my permit..........alone with the "concealed weapons permit" badge in preparation to show arriving law enforcement.
 
You hold up a badge, especially after detaining someone at gun point, and you're likely to go to jail for Impersonating an Officer. But, if you are comfortable with that risk, you might want to invest in a small blue or red revolving light for your car. :cool:

If the situation requires you maintain control of a situation by use of an pointed firearm, I believe you would be just fine with putting your weapon down when police arrive on scene. As long as you don't point at police, they should be fairly gental on you while they figure out what is going on. If they witness you pointing at a perp on the ground, but not firing, that kinda declares your purpose on this scene. Even with that "badge", or any other form of ID, you are probably going to be handcuffed and disarmed while police run through the on scene investigation. LEO's please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
You hold up a badge, especially after detaining someone at gun point, and you're likely to go to jail for Impersonating an Officer. But, if you are comfortable with that risk, you might want to invest in a small blue or red revolving light for your car.
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Jeff, I wasn't comfortable with it until I asked officers, detectives, and deputies from two different agencies. They all said no law was broken and they all thought it was a smart move.

If the situation requires you maintain control of a situation by use of an pointed firearm, I believe you would be just fine with putting your weapon down when police arrive on scene. As long as you don't point at police, they should be fairly gental on you while they figure out what is going on.
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Have you ever heard of off duty officers getting shot by friendlies? I have. Sometimes for whatever reason they screw up. This badge could prevent this accident. With some of the yahoo's who carry guns with permits that are just itchin to shoot someone........................I think I'll use my badge idea.

Imagine the Utah mall shooting and the chaos with that. It just plain makes sense to carry the badge. After the cops said it was okay it just has no down sides IMO.
 
And if you go to trial or are sued for the shooting, I hope your lawyer can explain that you wern't playing cop.. Something that the BG's lawyer will most likely try to push.
You'd be better off having your carry permit and DL in your hand when the PD rolls up. This of course is after you make a 911 call on your cell reporting what happened, along with your description. Or if needed have someone else make the call on your phone.
Be safe.
 
Revisiting....

If it is abundantly clear that I have a valid reason to subdue someone using my gun I will...assuming I didn't shoot them to begin with. Then it occurs to me (sitting here in my chair) that I am going to do what I have seen the cops do via felony stop procedures....turn them around, on their knees, on their belly, ankles crossed, arms behind their back palms up, faced turned away from me. Then I will take control by putting my knee and all 285 pounds that follow it into their rib cage....perhaps even multiple times depending on the crime. Once I am confident that I have control of them by sitting my knee on their neck, I will re-holster my weapon. When the police arrive, I will keep my knee in his neck while I raise my hands and wait for the police instructions. All this is dependent on the fact that the bad guy is going to follow my unstructions instead of running off (knowing human nature is to avoid shooting at all costs) when I tell him to freeze.

I will not be holding any gun when the police arrive. I respect the hell out of most police but, just like any profession, there are some spark plugs that can't be relied on for reasonableness.

Of course, as the really PROPERLY trained people here....you know them, they have pictures of a famous rock....will undoubtedly point out, I am an untrained cubicle ninja and my opinion has no validity. Our little exercises in what would you do aren't really valid training and thought provolking exercises. Only when you paid a small fortune to take a picture of a rock, roll around in the dirt and the crush and run like a SWAT mole, and shoot at cardboard through poorly designed movie sets are you REALLY qualified to tell us what to do. :barf:

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Just a question for situations other than your home. You have him at gun point so I "assume" he is now unarmed. If he tries to run are you going to shoot him??? If so, you just shot an unarmed person. I believe it to be a bad idea for a citizen to hold another at gun point. There are far too many things that can go wrong and the gun owner will be held responsible for almost any actions involving his gun. That's one reason police carry handcuffs; to minimize the amount of time a gun is pointed at a suspect.

I may be wrong here but it sounds like someone is trying setting up a stage to be a hero. Another option would be to ask other citizens to assist in detaining the suspect, put away the gun, and wait for the police. You can explain everything to the police when they arrive and still be the hero.
 
In an NTI FOF, I had shot the BG as the cops arrived. I threw my hands in the air and yelled: GOOD GUY repeatedly and loudly. Then I followed instructions.

I have no desire to hold some at gun point or go digging through my wallet in the middle of a fight.

You need to clearly communicate that you are not the threat and follow orders. You are the victim.
 
Just a question for situations other than your home. You have him at gun point so I "assume" he is now unarmed. If he tries to run are you going to shoot him???
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Exactly. Once the threat has stopped the firearm in your hand is nothing more than an empty threat unless you want to serve prison time. Are you going to shoot the guy if he procedes to call your mother names after dropping his weapon? What if his response to your commands to turn around and get on down his knees is to tell you to go have sex with yourself? He could spit on you, he could urinate on you... heck... he could probably even deck you with his bare fist and you still might go to prison for pulling the trigger.
 
If he is just being rude, I might wing him :D

If he is leaving, I will let him go.

My feeling is that if he is disarmed and staying and the weapon is near, it is still a threat. We all know how quickly someone can close distances. I would probably never have given him a chance to disarm if he is in my house or had actually threatened me with the gun in public. My home is my castle and I will iflict grave bodily harm on anyone who enters it with malice on their minds....also certain inlaws.

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Glenn, You are dead on and I would do as instructed immediately. What I feel the badge does is cause a delay in getting shot by friendlies until they are in control of the situation.

You other guys can do what you want. I was just offering something different. If you are concerned that simply explaining that you didn't want the cops to think that you were the bad guy and shoot you before having the chance to explain so, then don't use the idea. If you think it will cause you to wanna play cop then don't use the idea. If you think it will cause you to murder a fleeing suspect then don't use the idea. Jeez you guys are a trip.

If like me and many law officers you feel it will reduce the chance of getting shot by a friendly then use it.
 
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