how many times has L.E. saved you from a deadly encounter?

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Jon K

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How many times when faced with a deadly encounter have you called 911 and been saved by the men in blue verses times you have saved yourself using your own firearm?
Saved my own bacon twice. Law Enforcement, zero.
In both encounters I would have not had the time to call 911, let alone been able to wait for the troups to arrive.
Both times I pulled a handgun (I have a CCW) and both times the crooks left running, slipping in their own feses. Not a shot fired, only me laughing at the brave bad guys who just minutes before thought they could have their way, one with a piece of pipe and one with a 12" knife. I kept my wallet and my dignity both times.

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NRA MEMBER? GREAT, NOW JOIN GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA
 
My record is the same, except I've been (legally) armed with knives in the CCW hellzone of California.

I'm not saying knives are as good...but they're better than nothing, *especially* if you've had some training. Even a little helps - a lot.

Jim
 
My experience is exactly the same. Additionally I have had the experience of notifying the PD of a crime about to happen and being told that they cant do anything until it actually happens.
The simple fact is that police cannot protect you. They can only respond after the fact and by then you probably will be dead.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Lets see, two breakins at my home. Would I be typing this message if I was unarmed? Possibly. Would the PD arrive on time and save my ass from the BGs? No way.

Twice on the street. Though I did not draw my firearm, a knife came in handy the first time. And my feet came in handy the second time. Would the PD have helped? No way. They would never have gotten there in time.

Me 4 LE 0
 
Zero for law enforcement. One for personal defense.

Summer of '83 in a nice, suburban, Northern Virginia neighborhood. Two BGs -- even dumber than I -- break into my home at night. I'm deeply asleep, hear a few noises, figure the TV was inadvertently left on, wonder down to the family room, and discover two felons stealing the stereo, TV, etc. Unarmed -- but really and instantaneously furious -- I chase them out the sliding door and then turn my ankle on the wet grass in the back yard. Next I retrieve my firearm (911 called by wife and several neighbors, due to my shouting). The Fairfax police show up in a few minutes, in large numbers, and with a canine unit. The dogs track the BGs to a van in parking lot a half mile away, loaded with stolen goods (none mine), and arrest three or four people.

Lessons learned:
a) The police did a fine job
b) But, they arrived a few minutes after "the action" was completed
c) LOTS of bad things could have happened in those few minutes
d) I was stupid, never figuring this was a B&E, and arrived unarmed and having not yet called 911
e) Cognitive processes and logic do NOT apply in emotionally-changed, instantaneous-decision situations . . . two crook were in my home and I was going to tear their heads off
f) The BGs and I were both lucky . . . had I been armed, I am fairly certain they would have been dead with the SLIGHTEST provocation



[This message has been edited by RWK (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
Had a man with a gun wandering around in
the woods behind the house.

Took 15 minutes for the cops to arrive
(no reason for this).

Cop refused to look for him.
 
First, I must state that I'm sure that one of the reasons I've been touched by crime so little is because we have good LEO protection and at least a passable criminal justice system. While I get pretty irritated with our courts sometimes, I certainly wouldn't want to fire our LEO's, disband our criminal justice system and post 24 hour guards around our neighborhood.

Having said that, I too have never had LEO's directly prevent crime against me or my family. I've been very fortunate - no violent crime, and never been burglarized (however, a fair amount of property crime). Had a car stolen once, and I was not impressed by the low level of interest shown by our LEO's - they took the report over the phone. I went looking for the car myself eventually, and found it about 1/2 mile away. Called the police, and they showed up about 15 minutes later.

It will be interesting to watch this thread. I have no problem with the fact that our LEO's usually cannot stop a crime in progress, and usually can't get there in time to apprehend the BG's. I think that is simply a physical reality.

I do have a problem with sanctimonious police chiefs who use my tax dollars to help pay for their time to lobby politicians to reduce my ability to defend myself. As a matter of fact, I think it is actually evil of these chiefs to lie about whether citizens need to defend themselves, and about the 'problems' of firearms in civilian hands. I think these chiefs are literally bad human beings who are willing to sacrifice innocent men, women and children because they are unwilling to admit our need to defend ourselves. Those people should rot in hell, IMHO. Harsh? Think about what they are doing.

However, from what I've seen, rank and file LEO's normally are pretty forthcoming about the need of citizens to defend themselves until the professionals arrive.

I do get damn discouraged when I see LEO organizations like the FOP support gun control BS. It is at those times that I feel LEO's are not my friends, but rather my enemies. I think it is very, very damaging to the relationship when the FOP and other LEO organizations do anything to diminish my RKBA rights.

Regards from AZ
 
Lest LEOs take offense, this is not a judgement upon their effectiveness.
It is about the illogical quandry citizens are put in; the actual purpose of LE vs the "declared and perceived" purpose of LE as continually propagandized by our leaders and the media.
My experience: me 1, LE 0 I was driving cross country, car loaded down to the gills, pulled into a reststop in Kansas about midnite after driving for 11-12 hrs. I took a snooze and woke up just as some guy was about to open my door. On the console, which I grabbed and jammed in his face, was a cocked 1911. Fortunately for us both, he was petrified, threw his hands up and backed away rapidly. He took off running and about 30 seconds later a car (no headlights on) blew out of the reststop. As it passed by me and between me and a light, I noted there were 2 men in the car. I called my Dad, and told him about it and his words were..."Good girl, ya kept your head." Then were his sobering words: "Lucky for both of you he didn't have anything in his hands."

Was and am I upset that the police weren't there to protect me? Of course not, nor do I expect them to. I took care of it. Despite what our leaders and the pandering Police chiefs say...they can't unless half the population was LE, we'd all have to have our own cop assigned to ourselves exclusively.
By perpetrating the myth that self-defense is wrong,that we are basically ineffectual and incompetent to defend ourselves, that we should rely on the police....I hold the media and our political leaders and the anti-defense groups just as evil and criminal as the muggers, rapists, robbers and murderers who molest us.

Consider this analogy: the same logic they apply to self-defense could be used for physical injury. The vast majority of us are not medical professionals....by extension, therefore, we are incompetent to render any type of immediate first aid to ourselves or others. Hence, we should do nothing except call 911....let ourself or others bleed or choke to death.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I asked the question on this thread for two reasons. One, I wanted to hear the stories of those of us who have chosen to take responsibility for our own safekeeping. And two, to make people who have not yet had to defend themselves think and prepare.
I was a Police officer for 15 years. The two incidents that happened to me were when I was off duty. Never even had a chance to badge either one of them. Just the sight of my firearm sent them running.
A couple of hints to remember if you do ever shoot someone. #1 anyone worth shooting is worth shooting more than once. #2 when you call 911 tell the dispatcher that you were in fear for your life and had no choice but to shoot or be killed. #3 ask the dispatcher to send the paramedics. #4 When the Police arrive put your firarm down and step away from it if safe to do so. #5 tell the officers you are willing to cooperate with them fully but wish to consult with your lawyer first and do so.
What you have done is to put on tape that you feared for your life (a requirement in many states), you have also shown compassion for the poor misguided person who was trying to harm you by asking for the medics. Lastly you are protecting yourself by getting legal representation.
Most cops love it when you dump some puke with a record as long as your arm, but they don't have the final say as to what will happen to you after the shooting.
Lastly, support the L.E. officers who do their job well. Complain about the ones who try to violate your rights. I'm glad to be retired. Too many L.E. officers who have a God syndrom anymore. Thank God for the good ones who are still left.

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NRA MEMBER? GREAT, NOW JOIN GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA
 
Being in a knock-down drag out fight, it's great when the calvary arrives and sometimes the calvary isn't even your brother and sisters in blue. It can be a ordinary citizen who sees you're in trouble and stops to help, and then quickly disappear when the situation is controlled. Thanks to all citizens (and non-citizens) who care and go the extra mile.
 
I wonder how many people have been saved and don't know it?

I can think of a couple--ex-husband got liquored up, grabbed his .357 and went to visit his ex-wife. We got called by his mother, intercepted him on the highway and tossed his butt into the drunk tank for the weekend. I don't think his ex- ever knew what happened.

Doting father found out that he was about to become a first time grandfather, without the benefit of becoming a father-in-law first. Took up a baseball bat and went to the high-school in search of the errant father of his on-the-way grandchild.
He wound up getting tapped with a stungun, having his bat taken away and cooling his heels in holding for the afternoon. His wife was told, but we never told anyone else.

I wonder how often this sort of thing happens every week?

LawDog
 
My only experience was at age 18, hitchiking and getting picked up by a big guy with electric doorlocks. Thought I was safe, but soon found out he was an aggressive pedophile. When there was no other alternative, I put a switchblade to his throat and demanded to be let out of the car.
He complied, I called the police when I got home, but they weren't interested. I still don't know why they wouldn't be, since I had
the plate number and was pretty upset.

Dick
 
Score - Me: 7 LE: 0 (including 3x holding the thug 'till the cops got there)
Don't get me wrong, though, I have no resentment towards the guys in blue. They have a lot to do and can't be everywhere at once.
My view of the police is that they are something like "society's janitors". Their job is to clean up the mess after a crime and throw the trash in the bin. If they somehow are able to get the call, drive across town, and get there in time to actually stop the criminal in his tracks --- it's a nice bonus.
I know almost all of them are dedicated and really try to make a difference. For that, I am truly thankful. You really appreciate the beauty of blue flashing lights after you've been holding a , uh , "suspect" at gunpoint for 10 minutes. By the way, 10 minutes can be a LONG LONG time.
:)Anyway, a big Thanks to the guys in blue. :)
The black ninja suits, however, can bite my .... :p
 
Never been saved by them that I know of, though I agree that they might have done it some time I didn't know of, especially when I was going to a really rough inner city high school. I truly appreciate the job that they do.

On the other hand a rotten cop nearly got me killed once.

I was walking along a street when a guy with long hair, a beard, and wearing an old fatigue jacket came rushing out of a bar chasing another similar looking guy, who he then shot dead in the back of the head about ten feet from me.

I thought I had just witnessed a drug gang execution and they would next want to take out the witnesses. Scary moment. Actually it was an undercover cop shooting a "fleeing felon" after a drug bust under the Oklahoma law which allows that. (I hasten to add that I don't know of any departments which still allow this, thought the law has not changed.)

If the bad guy had had any armed friends around there would have been some serious blasting. That cop is no longer on the force due to some other problems he had with excessive force.

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"...where the wind comes sweeping down the plains..."
 
Never had the cops save my bacon, only write me a few tickets. Had to pull my own fat out of the fire twice, but no shots fired.
 
I agree that this is not criticism of LEO's, but the system. As we do NOT want the government in our lives, we do not have LEO's until we call.
The problem is that the anti's tout 911 as the solution to our problems and for that reason we do not use guns.
Pointing out the faulty reasoning, (is that an oxymoron?)helps us all.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
How many times when faced with a deadly encounter have you called 911 and been saved by the men in blue verses times you have saved yourself using your own firearm?

Never.
 
The one time I called 911 was on a prowler who had chased my ex-roomie into our apartment the previous day. She was so scared she wouldn't leave the apartment til I got home from work, so I borrowed her cell phone, figuring to troll the neighborhood looking for this guy on my way home and call the heat on him. No joy (as fighter jocks put it). I pulled into our driveway upon arriving home, and as I was parking the car he appeared from around the corner of the building. No prob, I called the local precinct (NOT the overburdened 911 system, besides, I knew half-a-dozen officers that worked out of this precinct). Deciding I'd rather wait in my apartment only 5 or 10 steps from the car, I loosened the velcro on my purse's gun compartment, grabbed my jumbo-sized cannister of dog & bear grade OC and stepped out.

He charged me and grabbed my arm hard enough to leave bruises. I hosed his face with what felt like half the can of OC. He collapsed, screaming and I bolted for the steps. I saw that some genius had left the building's outward opening security door propped open w/a cinderblock and looked over my shoulder to make sure he was still lying there. He wasn't, he was right behind me. I pounded up the stairs and into the building, tossing the OC can into the bushes and scrabbling for my Glock 23. Hit my (thank God, unlocked) apartment door with a shooulder on the run. I burst in and saw my roomie standing there in the bedroom doorway, mouth open. Kicked the door shut behind me, he was so close behind that it bounced off his head with a *thunk* and flew open again. By this time I had the gun out and turned with it in both hands. He almost ran onto the muzzle, I remember taking up slack on the trigger when he tried to backpedal at the sight of the gun and fell on his butt. I tried to tell him to hold it and wait for the police, but couldn't get the words out (my roomie say I was screaming louder than her, no words just a shriek, but I don't distincly remember any sounds except for him hitting the floor; I thought for an instant I'd shot him) He scrabbled backwards out the door and jumped back out of the building. I got to the outer door in time to see him turn the corner at the end of the driveway and run off. It was then that I noticed that a) I was in tears, and b) I had piddled myself.

20 minutes later the police showed up: not entirely their fault as I apparently had not made it clear that I was out in the parking lot with this guy. They thought I had spotted him through a window from inside, and so they had tried a stealthy approach to see if they could avoid spooking him. Both officers were occaisional drinking buddies of mine and were sincerely concerned, upset, & apologetic.

They never caught the guy.

I still carry a gun...

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
as some of you already know, my wife's experence is very recent, like 24hrs ago or so, if it were not for my ColtIV Series 80 under the pillow, locked and loaded......

This is an impresson of the attacker when he realized my wife had a gun a few inches from his face-- :eek:

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"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster
 
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