8
8Balls
Guest
I carry Gerber EZ-out knife on school grounds.
How many of you carry alternative means of defense?
- Thread starter jrsower
- Start date
David Blinder
New member
Drjones,
In your scenarios, pepper spray isn't a correct choice because you are facing a lethal threat due to the presense of the knife. Just because you have spray available doesn't mean you are obligated to use it. You use whatever level of force is needed to make the threat stop. Spray when there is no apparent lethal threat and/or you fear that the situation could become more serious.
In your scenarios, pepper spray isn't a correct choice because you are facing a lethal threat due to the presense of the knife. Just because you have spray available doesn't mean you are obligated to use it. You use whatever level of force is needed to make the threat stop. Spray when there is no apparent lethal threat and/or you fear that the situation could become more serious.
Larry Wright
New member
I responded that I only carry a gun. I sometimes carry a leatherman or an old uncle henry but only as a tool.
David Park
New member
I used to only occasionally carry certain items, but now I ALWAYS carry:
handgun w/spare mag(s)
OC spray
Sure-Fire
defensive knife/knives
...only where legal, of course.
handgun w/spare mag(s)
OC spray
Sure-Fire
defensive knife/knives
...only where legal, of course.
Here in Scandinavia there is practically no CCW licensing available - on the other hand, neither are lethal threats. Even the knife culture here is different; the possibility to be confronted with a blade by somebody you don't know and haven't been drinking with for the last ten days is extremely small. Likewise with firearms, if you're not a career criminal or an addict with a lousy credit record, you won't see any pointed towards you.
Once off duty I opted to lend a helpful arm to a bus driver wrestling with an aggressive drug addict - handcuffs would have been an aid but there was really no problem just keeping the arm lock going for a while longer. I considered carrying the cuffs then but dropped it after a while. Likewise with the OC; only on the way to/from work.
Sound tactics and 17 years of ongoing karate training seem to work for me. A Swiss multi-tool, not for use as a "knife" but as a tekko/kubotan hand aid might provide assistance: neat kevlar/nomex-lined frisking gloves certainly do, enabling me to grapple for a blade.
Once off duty I opted to lend a helpful arm to a bus driver wrestling with an aggressive drug addict - handcuffs would have been an aid but there was really no problem just keeping the arm lock going for a while longer. I considered carrying the cuffs then but dropped it after a while. Likewise with the OC; only on the way to/from work.
Sound tactics and 17 years of ongoing karate training seem to work for me. A Swiss multi-tool, not for use as a "knife" but as a tekko/kubotan hand aid might provide assistance: neat kevlar/nomex-lined frisking gloves certainly do, enabling me to grapple for a blade.
If your not a LEO or security guard under what situations could you use pepper spray (or similar) where you couldn't (shouldn't?) display a gun? LEO and security guards will sometimes be trying to arrest someone which is a different tactical problem from defending yourself.
I have spent a lot of time trying to think of situations where I would use pepper spray if I had it with me. I have also interviewed as many LEO as possible about how effective is has been for them when used. They have mixed results. Often same LEO will tell about how on subject X it worked great, but it just really made subject Y POed.
There are some real limitations with the use of pepper spray. One it is a CLOSE range weapon. Two can only be used under good environmental conditions: wind direction and strength have to be in your favor, can't be raining much, or snowing much, goblin has to have face and/or eyes exposed. Plus you need a plan B because sometimes pepperspray works real good and other times it is worthless.
Not to mention you can get the stuff on yourself from wind or ending up in grapple with goblin.
I have spent a lot of time trying to think of situations where I would use pepper spray if I had it with me. I have also interviewed as many LEO as possible about how effective is has been for them when used. They have mixed results. Often same LEO will tell about how on subject X it worked great, but it just really made subject Y POed.
There are some real limitations with the use of pepper spray. One it is a CLOSE range weapon. Two can only be used under good environmental conditions: wind direction and strength have to be in your favor, can't be raining much, or snowing much, goblin has to have face and/or eyes exposed. Plus you need a plan B because sometimes pepperspray works real good and other times it is worthless.
Not to mention you can get the stuff on yourself from wind or ending up in grapple with goblin.
Hell, I once used pepper spray on a 14 yr old male who volunteered to be sprayed. He couldn't weighed more than 120 at the time, and probably less. He was smiling for the first five minutes.
I believe OC is best used for dissuading animals and persuading crowds to disperse.
I believe OC is best used for dissuading animals and persuading crowds to disperse.
Oleoresin Capsicum Sprays, just like your firearm, aren't guaranteed to stop a human being engaged in violent, interpersonal conflict. It will have a diminishing effect on the person sprayed but people with a high tolerance for pain will be less effected.
Does that make it useless? No. It's useful because of where it falls under, for instance, the Federal use of force guidelines. It's after verbal and before soft hands (i.e., controlling techniques). They use it as a less-than-lethal tool and drawing that parallel makes it a viable option for self-defense.
However, I'm not going to rely on one tool (whether that's OC Spray or a hand strike) to do what I need it to when I'm facing an aggressor. If I can spray, that gives me an edge because he has to deal with it. If it's enough to stop his aggression, great. If not, I can transition to another appropriate tool (empty hand being a last resort or a way to transition to a higher-level of force).
Does that make it useless? No. It's useful because of where it falls under, for instance, the Federal use of force guidelines. It's after verbal and before soft hands (i.e., controlling techniques). They use it as a less-than-lethal tool and drawing that parallel makes it a viable option for self-defense.
However, I'm not going to rely on one tool (whether that's OC Spray or a hand strike) to do what I need it to when I'm facing an aggressor. If I can spray, that gives me an edge because he has to deal with it. If it's enough to stop his aggression, great. If not, I can transition to another appropriate tool (empty hand being a last resort or a way to transition to a higher-level of force).
Ben Shepherd
New member
I carry a knife as well.
gunorthopod
New member
If I'm wearing my fanny pack I have Glock M27,spare mag,Asp,OC,and Surefire. Wearing sweater,jacket or sportcoat,just the pistol and my ever present Spyderco.Hope to never have to deploy any of the above.
trapshooter
Moderator
Living
in one of the StupidStates, I can't carry a concealed weapon. However, pocketknives with blades less than 4" are not concealed weapons. So... I have a Kershaw SpeedSafe. I took the stupid clip off, and the (totally unecessary) dumb little thumb lever thing on the blade. Perfectly legal, slick as a snake, and as deadly as I need it to be. For all those in a similar situation, I recommend it, if you know how to use a knife. If not, learn. Lots of books available, and you can practice with a stick.
(edited to add):
It is, like any knife this size, a weapon of last resort, and requires close-range work. Not my preference, but I have no other option, at present.
in one of the StupidStates, I can't carry a concealed weapon. However, pocketknives with blades less than 4" are not concealed weapons. So... I have a Kershaw SpeedSafe. I took the stupid clip off, and the (totally unecessary) dumb little thumb lever thing on the blade. Perfectly legal, slick as a snake, and as deadly as I need it to be. For all those in a similar situation, I recommend it, if you know how to use a knife. If not, learn. Lots of books available, and you can practice with a stick.
(edited to add):
It is, like any knife this size, a weapon of last resort, and requires close-range work. Not my preference, but I have no other option, at present.
I usually carry pepper spray in my vehicle, seldom on my person. The guns are easier to carry!!
I apparently ticked of a motorist in a parking lot one day and he stopped in front of me and got out of his truck in an agressive manner. I reached for my pepper spray (readily available) and shook it while this guy was approaching my car. The event came to an end rather quickly (I'm sure he noticed my shaking a magnum can of pepper spray). Now, try to imagine the s**t that would have hit the fan had I pulled my glock 36 instead!!
I apparently ticked of a motorist in a parking lot one day and he stopped in front of me and got out of his truck in an agressive manner. I reached for my pepper spray (readily available) and shook it while this guy was approaching my car. The event came to an end rather quickly (I'm sure he noticed my shaking a magnum can of pepper spray). Now, try to imagine the s**t that would have hit the fan had I pulled my glock 36 instead!!