How many of you carry alternative means of defense?

What do you carry for defense?

  • I only carry my gun.

    Votes: 18 21.4%

  • I carry my gun and another nonlethal item.

    Votes: 52 61.9%

  • I only carry a nonlethal item.

    Votes: 14 16.7%
  • Total voters
    84
J

jrsower

New member
Please don't just read this thread and not respond. I'm interested in how many people with CCL's actually carry another non lethal form of defense, Pepper Spray, OC, stun gun, Louisville Slugger, etc.

I'm one of those that ONLY carries a gun. Got a small pocket knife, but I don't count that as I never assume I might need it to defend myself.

If you only read and don't respond then only the folks that DO carry more than lethal means will disproportionately affect the results.
 
Most lethal thing I've got is what I was born with -- a functional brain. Other stuff is just tools, some of which are guns....
 
There's no such thing as a non-lethal weapon, but I do carry my MOD Dieter II (and other knives) and sometimes my 16" ASP baton.
 
If all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. I've noticed that the more experienced someone is, the higher the probability is that they'll carry alternative tools with pepper spray and/or a knife the likely candidates.
 
Just my gun, ( or guns ) ;) and my hands. If it is something that I can not avoid, or handle with my hands, then it is probably a potentialy lethal situation.
 
I agree with David Blinder on this 100%...

you are severly limiting yourself and your defensive capabilities when you only carry a firearm..

the simple truth of the matter is that not all situations that require force for self defense warrant deadly force...

things like OC spray, batons, etc.. help to bridge the gap between deadly force encounters and non deadly force encounters..

Stay Safe and Win at All Costs!
Dave West
www.legionconsulting.com
 
I always carry a Spyderco, not that I think much of it as a weapon.
I do think knifes and/or ASP type weapons have a (limited) place for CCW & self defense.

Pepper sprays and the like I think are more useful for home defense or car defense than for carry. You can flood area outside safe room (or car) with pepper spray while you still have a physical barrier...so if it doesn't work you are no worse off, but legally you have tried one more thing short of lethal force.

My problem with non LEO using pepper spray on the street is that to use it you have to be in Danger Close to start with, so if it fails your in a worse situation than if you didn't try it. Because you would really need your lethal force in one hand and pepper spray in the other shoot & HIT with pepper spray then check and see if it works and then shoot if it didn't (can also hear prosecuter saying "he didn't need to shoot since he had already MACED the poor victum").

Now if someone would come up with a weapon mounted pepper spray device I might think about it. Or better yet a mini grenade that would give off pepper spray cloud with "smoke" so you could actually try beating feet or finding cover if caught in open.
 
If you only read and don't respond then only the folks that DO carry more than lethal means will disproportionately affect the results.
Click to expand...

OK, you have made me feel obligated to reply now! Living in the UK I don't carry any implement could be regarded as a "weapon"
 
You are severely limiting your options if all you carry is a gun. Equipment is the least important in the scheme of things. Skill is only slightly more important. Tactics more important still and Mindset the most important of all.

If you have a commitment to avoidance, deterannce and deescalation and the appropraite mindset, tactics, skill and equipment then you have the greatest liklihood of going home safely and unmolested.

If you have the ability to inflict death or grave bodily harm on someone by application of a tool, I feel, quite strongly, that you must have less lethal options. Unarmed skills and OC are two examples from the "equipment" end of the spectrum. The mindset that comes from training in "survivalbility enhancement" is an example from the other end.

Your mind, obviously, is your greatest asset. Feed it, care for it and develop it and it will serve you well. If you do not consciously develop your mindset, it will develop subconsciously, and it will be suboptimal.
 
Glamdring, pepper spray is not a replacement for lethal force, it's an alternative that can be used to handle a situation before it gets more serious. If an altercation deserves a lethal response, by all means give it to them. The nice thing about pepper spray is that it can be applied relatively early in an altercation while with lethal force, you better be sure that it's warranted. On the force continuum model, pepper spray falls just above verbal commands and just below soft hands. Although I've spent 25 years building my unarmed, knife & shooting skills to fairly proficient levels, I still like having the spray as a choice. Thankfully, more people need to be sprayed than shot and I'd say that pepper spray is a better solution to more problems that we're likely to run into than any of the more aggressive options.

Gomez & others: I agree that the mind is the best weapon and that de-escalation and avoidance is preferred
 
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Like some others have said, there should probably be another choice.

Less than lethal: I always have at least one "personal size" container of defensive spray on my person, sometimes two (except in self-defense forbidden zones like airports). I carry a "large economy size" spray in the vehicle and a 200,000 volt so-called "stun gun" as well.

Lethal non-firearms: I carry a Cold Steel Voyager or a CRKT M-16 always. I have had no serious training with a pocket knife as a weapon, but I would not let that get in my way if that was all I had to defend myself with. Pointy end goes in the other guy, right? In the vehicle, I carry a tire iron and 6-cell Maglite within reach. Note that in Texas, certain types of knives and anything made as a club or baton is illegal for regular citizens.

Firearms: varies. Charter 2000 .44 Bulldog Pug, S&W J-frame, NAA .32 ACP Guardian, NAA .22 WMR mini-revolver. Even with a CHL and living in a so-called gun-friendly state, there's a lot of places where carry is simply forbidden.

My wife, who likes to shoot, thinks I'm paranoid as do a lot of other folks. Oh well.
 
I pretty much consider my body as a less than lethal weapon if it comes right down to it. (larger than usual and trained to do some things that will give me an edge) But I also will not be participating in any action that requires any type of defensive maneuver if at all possible. That means I'll run, beg for mercy, or even distract my way out of danger if I can before feeling the need to pummel some jerk into submission.

The gun is in case all of that doesn't work.

The cell phone is to tell someone of the incident.

Anything else is just excess weight and something that I have to worry about dropping...
 
Could you give me a scenario in which you would expect spray to do a better job than a gun?

While I do very much agree about the de-escalation, avoidance and all that, and WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that a gun is the VERY LAST LINE of defense, I still don't quite get it.

If you feel threatened enough to spray someone, wouldn't you feel justified in drawing (NOT NECESSARILY USING) your gun?

I've read statistics that say that approx. 75% of the time when a gun is drawn on a criminal, the situation ends WITHOUT a shot being fired.

Here's a simple example: you are walking along the street with your wife/girlfriend. Hardly a soul around. You notice some guy has been following you for a short while, and he begins closing. When he gets around 30 ft. away from you, you begin to worry, so you turn to face him. He continues towards you and pulls a knife. You yell "I am in fear of my life. I am armed and will shoot you. STOP!!!" He continues advancing. You draw your gun, leveling it at him. The guy suddenly remembers he forgot to return his rented video on time, turns and runs.

How can a situation turn out any better than that?

Here's another: you are walking along the street with your wife/girlfriend. You notice some guy has been following you for a short while, and he begins closing. When he gets around 30 ft. away from you, you begin to worry, so you turn to face him. He continues towards you and pulls a knife.

THIS TIME, you pull your pepper spray and spray him in the face. However, this requires him to be much closer (what's the max. range of sprays? I don't think its more than 10-15 ft.) and the spray has very little effect. Lucky for him he's pumped on alcohol/drugs/adrenaline, and keeps advancing. He jumps on you and begins stabbing. Your girlfriend/wife is screaming hysterically.

Aren't you glad you used your spray first???

Did I miss something here? I know they are simple, basic examples, but let's not get buried alive in "what-ifs." We could what-if all day long. Not straying too far from the examples I gave, tell me if I'm incorrect in thinking spray isn't all its cracked up to be.

Oh, sorry, one more thing: I've read some pretty disappointing test results of various types of sprays. IMO, the results vary too widely to be of much comfort to me...
 
Also;

Say you spray a guy in SD, only for whatever reason it doesn't have the effect you were hoping for, and he keeps advancing.

Didn't you only succeed in wasting time with which you instead could have drawn your weapon and ordered him to cease and desist?

I suppose it may make you look better in court that you were kind enough to douse him in seasoning first, but what if you don't make it to court?

Better 12 than 6, and all that...
 
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