How long will polymer really last?
- Thread starter mo84
- Start date
But now try making those same parts out of plastic and you'll start to see the differences between metal and plastic. Point is, the comparison is unfair as the parts that broke see much higher strains than the parts made out of plastic do.
No one can make the argument a poly gun is as durable or strong as a steel gun is. It just isn't so. There are many parts on your car that are made out of plastic. The frame, bumpers, axles, and drive shafts are not among them. The question is not if steel will hold up better but rather whether the poly is good enough to hold up over time. For 1 owner, I bet no problem. But for passing down to children and grandchildren, I think the Op has brought up a really good point. I bet that over time the poly components will break down and fail where metal will keep going strong. IDK, I have one poly gun and it's ok but it just doesn't have the same feel or quality as my metal guns do. I'm pretty sure it will be the last poly gun I ever buy.
I think you are partway there. Even "poly" guns have parts made out of steel or other metal. This is because polymers aren't suited to those applications. But poly is well suited to other applications. For reasons of weight, wear and cost of fabrication it is better suited to some applications.
No one disputes that steel and other metals are strong and durable. But in many applications that strength and durability is useless beyond a certain point. If you can achieve enough strength to do the job with a reduction in weight and a simpler manufacturing process why not do it? What do you lose from an engineering standpoint? Ask the aircraft industry.
It may be that poly guns won't be multigenerational heirlooms. So what? Poly guns aren't intended to be heirlooms. They're intended to be used. Hard. Actually, I doubt very many guns are intended to be an heirloom. But some turn out that way for a variety of reasons. I doubt that any heirloom gun was ever initially acquired with the idea that "this gun is made out of really durable materials and will last for a really long time".
I'm making pretty much that argument. I'm saying that for functional purposes a Glock is just as strong, durable, reliable, useful as an <insert name of non-poly gun here>. Function comes before all else here.
You've done a far better job of explaining things. Yes, one of the major side effects of sanitary landfills is that decomposition is inhibited because they try to isolate the landfill from the surrounding environment.
How so? The area needed for the next thousand years of waste would take up an area of land only 35 miles square. Seems rather efficient to me.
SwampYankee
New member
It's a poor method because everything we put in landfills could be recycled, there is very little true "trash". And if it cannot be recycled, most of it can be easily composted. This would certainly occupy more space to do properly but the biggest impediment is 1. money (because it would cost a lot more money to recycle everything than just bury it) and 2. our disposable culture- we are a culture of people who throw things away and have been since at least the 1950's.
SwampYankee
New member
Can you not finish reading 3 whole sentences? TL;DR? Should I parse every single sentence? Well, here goes...
I said, VERY clearly, "because it would cost a lot more money to recycle everything than just bury it".
Of course it's not cost effective to recycle everything! Everyone knows that! But that still doesn't make a landfill a good way to DECOMPOSE anything. It's simply a quarantine site...
But this is all off topic anyways and has nothing to do with polymer frames vs steel frames.
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ScottRiqui
New member
I agree that unless we get someone in here that has the appropriate background in materials science, and first-hand experience with the specific polymers used in the firearms industry, the thread is pretty pointless and amounts largely to FUD. For all any of us know, these questions have already been addressed by the scientists and engineers and found to be non-issues.
"This is just another thinly veiled polymer bashing thread."
Not at all. The OP's question cannot be answered until the guns are 100- or 200-years-old and still working (or not.) Right now they're just too new and it's all theory and speculation about how long they will last. The oldest Glock was only made in what, 1982. I expect them to last, but they haven't done it yet. How is that bashing? It isn't.
The working parts of a polymer gun are metal anyway. The barrel and the slide. Calling them polymer guns is an easy shorthand, but it's not accurate.
John
Not at all. The OP's question cannot be answered until the guns are 100- or 200-years-old and still working (or not.) Right now they're just too new and it's all theory and speculation about how long they will last. The oldest Glock was only made in what, 1982. I expect them to last, but they haven't done it yet. How is that bashing? It isn't.
The working parts of a polymer gun are metal anyway. The barrel and the slide. Calling them polymer guns is an easy shorthand, but it's not accurate.
John
Cascade1911
New member
Do I know that polymer frame will degrade to the point they are unusable sometime between 50 and 100 years of age? No. I do suspect they will non the less.
Does it matter in as much as few of us will outlive the poly framed firearms we purchased? I'm of two minds here.
On the one hand, I have seven firearms that were handed down to me that are now over 100 years old, one that is over 150 years old and one that is over 200 years old. They all function as they were intended when they were made.
On the other hand, in as much as most poly guns are butt ugly our descendents may be grateful.
Does it matter in as much as few of us will outlive the poly framed firearms we purchased? I'm of two minds here.
On the one hand, I have seven firearms that were handed down to me that are now over 100 years old, one that is over 150 years old and one that is over 200 years old. They all function as they were intended when they were made.
On the other hand, in as much as most poly guns are butt ugly our descendents may be grateful.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
So when you run out to face our arriving alien overlords or challenge our Microsoft of China robot masters with a stainless 1911 in 100 years - prepare to face the plasma rifles, guided bullets and other assorted things shot at you from the Glock 88 , 89 and 90.
However, to be serious, I've been told by someone I trust that Kahr polymer has deformed in a car during the TX heat.
However, to be serious, I've been told by someone I trust that Kahr polymer has deformed in a car during the TX heat.
The hard rubber used for revolver grips in the 1800's and most of those are still around. Bakelite has been used on AK-47 bayonets and grips and is still in use after 50 years.
The modern polymers are far superior to those plastics, and while they're used in more critical parts of the design than grips, I'm sure they're advanced enough they'll outlive me. I'd imagine they'll still be in working condition in 100 years.
The modern polymers are far superior to those plastics, and while they're used in more critical parts of the design than grips, I'm sure they're advanced enough they'll outlive me. I'd imagine they'll still be in working condition in 100 years.
SwampYankee
New member
This does surprise me a little, but just a little. I do consider my polymer guns tools and throwaways. I like to CCW them because I do not mind them getting pinched. I'd be heartbroken to lose a perfectly good Security Six to some idiot cop with an 8th grade education who thinks I can't carry in the town hall, despite the lack of legislation that says I cannot...
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
The issue is not so much the strength potential of "plastic" but one of cost.
There are entire engines made of "plastic". Some form of synthetic could do everything steel does and do it for just as long and weigh a lot less.
The issue at this point is money. Those materials are currently very expensive. Eventually, they won't be. At one time, steel was VERY expensive. Technology and supply changed the price. Many polymers are very expensive today but there are polymers that are much stronger and far lighter than steel.
As I've said before, saying a gun is made of "plastic" or "polymer" and acting like such a term is definitive is no different than saying its made of "metal" and considering it definitive.
Is made of nylon or polybenzimidazole? Is it titanium or aluminum, tin or iron?
There are entire engines made of "plastic". Some form of synthetic could do everything steel does and do it for just as long and weigh a lot less.
The issue at this point is money. Those materials are currently very expensive. Eventually, they won't be. At one time, steel was VERY expensive. Technology and supply changed the price. Many polymers are very expensive today but there are polymers that are much stronger and far lighter than steel.
As I've said before, saying a gun is made of "plastic" or "polymer" and acting like such a term is definitive is no different than saying its made of "metal" and considering it definitive.
Is made of nylon or polybenzimidazole? Is it titanium or aluminum, tin or iron?