How long will polymer really last?

"but will they last over 100 years like many steel guns have?"

Beretta has been making steel guns since the early 1500s. One day I hope to see their collection.

P4150967.jpg


- from http://acrossandabroad.com/2010/03/31/italys-gun-slinging-history-of-weapons/

The first Glock isn't 50 yet.



"If I were to bury the poly gun of my choice"

Why would anyone do that? Seems like a silly idea, doesn't it?
 
Polymer is essentially a "plastic" within a broad definition, and it starts to degrade as soon as it's poured & moulded.
That degradation is a very slow process, and a subject that no maker will address publicly, but the material WILL weaken over time.
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I'm not disputing this... but... lets reword it a little and still be true.

STEEL is essentially a "METAL" within a broad definition, and it starts to degrade as soon as it's EXPOSED TO AIR AND MOISTURE.
That degradation is a very slow process, and a subject that no maker will address publicly, but the material WILL weaken over time.


The enigineers do a pretty good job estimating life spans.

Think of things... such as 'plastic' insulated wires.... that have been around for 75 yrs in ships, airplanes, etc that are exposed to far worse conditions that that cozy safe or pocket.


It would be very interesting to have poly gun (1st yr glock for ex) examined by engineers to see how much its degraded to date. I bet glock has done it.
 
One thing I know for sure: I am deteriorating a lot faster than my polymer guns. I'll let my great-great-grandchildren worry about how well my guns have held up.
 
STEEL is essentially a "METAL" within a broad definition, and it starts to degrade as soon as it's EXPOSED TO AIR AND MOISTURE.
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Mild, untreated steel perhaps. But I doubt that there would be any degradation ordinance grade steel treated with a the Tenifer nitriding process, Wonder finish, or even stainless steel if not exposed to moisture for long periods of time.
 
"it starts to degrade as soon as it's EXPOSED TO AIR AND MOISTURE."

And that's why we oil our metal guns and wipe them down, right? I assumed this was common knowledge among gun owners.

John
 
It is a very poor way of disposing of garbage and the inhibition of decomposition is an unfortunate byproduct of the system, not an intentionally engineered outcome.
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There is still enough decay that older (20 years or so) landfills are now venting flammable gas from decomposition.

A closed one I pass daily has been drilled into and they attempt to gather the gas and flare it off.

A few years before that, it built up in a structure just beside the main 'mound' and caused an explosion.
 
Polymer, as with other plastics, degrades internally independently of atmosphere. Chemicals & UV CAN affect it externally, but even without external influences it WILL degrade and it it IS degrading.

Unlike steel rust, polymer degradation is not visible and not generally detectable until it reaches a failure point. You can't see it. You can't feel it.
Outward appearances are normal. You won't know till it lets loose. :)

Never had a piece of 50-year-old plastic break on you when you tried to do something with it? Plastics, in general, will maintain the same external appearance (aside from some discoloration with age), but become either brittle or soft, and lose internal integrity and strength.
In other words- looks the same, but isn't the same.

The cheaper the plastic, the quicker the degradation.
Denis
 
it starts to degrade as soon as it's EXPOSED TO AIR AND MOISTURE."

And that's why we oil our metal guns and wipe them down, right? I assumed this was common knowledge among gun owners.
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That only slows down the process, it doesn't stop it.

Plastics of various types have been around for longer than any of us have been alive. Newer plastics are even longer lasting than the stuff used in the 1800's. Dig a hole in your back yard and bury a few guns and have your grandkids dig them up in 100 years or so. The plastic parts will still be recognizeable. The metal will be pretty much gone.
 
"That only slows down the process, it doesn't stop it."

How do you account for, say, Bronze and Iron age weapons dug out of the ground and dredged out of rivers? Or coins, what about ancient coins? According to you they should have evaporated ages ago.

"Dig a hole in your back yard and bury a few guns "

What a silly idea. Do have these thoughts often? Jeez. You realize I hope that the major parts of the so-called plastic guns are metal - the slide, the barrel, the springs and so forth. Accordingly, they should deteriorate just like the all-metal guns, right? Where's the advantage to having plastic parts?
 
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www.peterborough.gov.uk/leisure_and...es/museum_collections/our_iron_age_sword.aspx

"The sword and scabbard were found at Orton Longueville during gravel extraction in the 1980s. They had been placed in the river Nene as offerings during the Iron Age, over 2000 years ago."
________

"Newer plastics are even longer lasting than the stuff used in the 1800's."

A lot of early discoveries were set aside for a long time until someone else improved on them many, many years later. But even if you begin counting with the earliest man-made plastic in 1862 (Parkesine) they still haven't been in existence for hundreds or even thousands of years. The oldest Glock isn't 50 yet.

Then celluloid was invented in 1868 and eventually used for billiard balls and photo film, but the film didn't last and self-destructed. It was in use up until the 1950s and explains why so many of the old movies don't exist anymore - they burned up.

I must have had a heck of a chemistry teacher at some point to remember all of this.
 
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Metal that is unoiled will develop a coat of rust. As long as it is not perennially soaked down with water, the rusting will reach a stable state. It is effectively what blueing does, it causes enough rusting to stop further rusting. This is a surface process. Once you reach a stable state, it stops. Oil will prevent rusting- not just slow it down. Oil excludes air and water. No air, no water, no rust.

but the material WILL weaken over time
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Assuming that the corrosion does not move into the metal, it will not weaken anytime in your lifetime. Forged, tempered metal is caused by the alignment of molecules. While they may reorient themselves over long periods of time, only high heat can soften the metals substantially. Do a hardness test on tool steel now and in 50 years, the hardness will remain the same.
 
Mild, untreated steel perhaps. But I doubt that there would be any degradation ordinance grade steel treated with a the Tenifer nitriding process, Wonder finish, or even stainless steel if not exposed to moisture for long periods of time.
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But we're talking about long periods of time..... thats what the thread is about.

"it starts to degrade as soon as it's EXPOSED TO AIR AND MOISTURE."

And that's why we oil our metal guns and wipe them down, right? I assumed this was common knowledge among gun owners.
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I assumed it was common knowledge that they still rust. Do a search and you'll see tons of threads that say something like "I clean and oil my gun often and I still get rust".


How do you account for, say, Bronze and Iron age weapons dug out of the ground and dredged out of rivers? Or coins, what about ancient coins? According to you they should have evaporated ages ago.
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We're still talking guns... right? Anyways... he didnt say that. If you have to fabricate things to prove your point... well, you havent proven your point. Psst... there isnt a lot of air underground. Thats why living things die when burried.

"The sword and scabbard were found at Orton Longueville during gravel extraction in the 1980s. They had been placed in the river Nene as offerings during the Iron Age, over 2000 years ago."
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I'm no scientist but lets look at H2O. Do you see any air in that? But by your logic... we should be finding 2000 yr old coins in perfect condition. But we're not... nor did you actually say that. It works both ways. ;)

Oil will prevent rusting- not just slow it down. Oil excludes air and water. No air, no water, no rust.
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Here's someone that gets it. if you can keep air and moisture completely off then no rust. Wiping down the gun with oil isnt 100%
 
Anyone have a working HK VP70? I believe they were first made around 1970. Glocks at the beginning of the 80's.

Plenty originals still in firing condition I'll bet. So 30-40 years seems to be no problem.

They put additives in polymers to make them resistant to the things that degrade polymers. Like heat, UV, etc.

The poly parts of poly guns (and more traditional guns) will last long enough that you won't have to worry about it.

In short, I'd object to a manufacturer cutting costs by using inferior materials, or by relaxing tolerances to make their job easier, but I don't think that simply using polymer instead of metal necessarily implies either of those.
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Two points: First, is it inferior if it works just as well? Is there a car left today that isn't full of aluminum and plastic? Yet cars run longer with less maintenance than ever before. Second, prices have less to do with the cost of materials than with demand. You can sell your mousetraps for whatever you choose to charge as long as customer keep beating a path to your door. Poly pistols are the rage. They work, they last and they sell. I wish I'd thought of it.
 
Glock 14 years...

My G35 was new in 1997 and has approximately 100k rounds through it. The only breakage was a chipped extractor and recently the fat center pin. So in other words the breakages were metal not plastic. My HK USP 45 has about 70K rounds and is 10 years old with NO breakages. My Para from 1994 busted a link, rounded the lugs on the barrel and the slide with about 1000 rounds. I sold it 6 years ago. I know these won't last forever but no one told them that...
 
This is like arguing whether ice will melt at the North Pole.
It does, but it don't matter
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Well, the ice melting off the Arctic and loss of the Greenland and Antarctic glaciers DOES matter because it results in rising sea levels. You get a couple more feet of water and places like Florida go away...
 
Dogtown Tom is right. It just does not matter. And...we will never ever live long enough to find out the answer. I suppose that you could have the question chipped on your headstone, and if the headstone lasts long enough and is still readable, somebody might eventually yell the answer while standing on your grave.
 
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