Aguila Blanca
Staff
This is a firearms forum. We're not going to discuss Forged In Fire. If you want to pursue that discussion, do so by private messaging.Alan0354 said:
How long have you kept her cocked and locked?
- Thread starter JJ45
- Start date
I was chemistry major, but my whole career was electronic engineer. I work a lot on cars, gun smithing and other mechanical stuffs. No, I only studied basic spring physics. This is getting very specialize. From reading a few articles, they did talk about compression fatigue even compressed within the limit. I can't even say I understand completely on Creep and all that. But the idea is it will change the spring if compress for extend period of time, not just going through the cycle of compression and relaxing.
I don't think anyone has a definitive answer unless you actually do the experiment by compress and leave it there for years. General idea is it will weaken the spring, but how much? does it matter in this case?
I bet it's going to be fine with extended period of cocked and locked. BUT, I don't think it is right or responsible to say compression will NOT affect the spring in a definitive way. I would not want to be responsible if anyone run into trouble from believing this.
Bottom line, I don't think anyone of us know definitely one way or the other. Someone need to actually do the experiment on the specific spring to know for sure. Compress it for years and measure!!!
for me, as I repeat over and over, I won't do it. More importantly, I would use a more modern DA/SA pistol to avoid all this. My Gold Cup is in the safe and my 659 is loaded and under the bed. I only have to pull the trigger and fire, don't have to release the safety then pull the trigger.
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stinkeypete
New member
If one insists on a practical example- I have offered my pump action shotgun which has been cocked for over 70 years and still works fine.
Why keep it cocked? Because dry firing an old school shotgun without a shell or snap cap is really hard on the firing pin… so don’t dry fire it. And snap caps are a new fangled invention, as far as I know.
Why keep it cocked? Because dry firing an old school shotgun without a shell or snap cap is really hard on the firing pin… so don’t dry fire it. And snap caps are a new fangled invention, as far as I know.
/threadCompression CAN certainly weaken springs.
Does it always? NO.
If the spring is never compressed too far, and is made properly with good quality materials, then leaving it compressed won't weaken it.
But if any of that changes then leaving it compressed can certainly weaken it.
This has been common knowledge in the spring-piston airgun community. The springs in those guns are often compressed until they are coilbound in an attempt to get maximum power from minimum weight and space. Leaving them cocked can easily be demonstrated to cause the spring to weaken.
Semi-auto pistol magazines are another situation where the manufacturer may be willing to sacrifice some spring life to get another couple of rounds to fit into the magazine--especially since magazine springs are often considered to be normal wear items that can be easily replaced. If you poke around a bit, you can find people telling about magazines that were left fully loaded for long periods and then failed to function properly. Either because the manufacturer set up the design so the spring was over-compressed with the mag fully loaded or because the materials weren't the best quality. You can also find many, MANY situations where it didn't as well--if the design doesn't over-compress the springs and the materials are good quality then it's not an issue.
I've personally done tests on magazines, leaving them fully loaded for up to years and in EVERY case, there was measurable weakening of the springs from leaving them loaded. In the mags I tested, that weakening was never enough to cause a failure to function, but the springs did weaken and they did weaken more the longer they were left fully loaded.
The bottom line is that both of these two statements are false:
1. Springs never weaken from being left compressed.
2. Springs always weaken from being left compressed.
In both cases, much more needs to be said before the statements can be accurate. There certainly are situations where they do weaken from being left compressed, and anyone who wants to do more testing than talking can verify that is true. But is also true that leaving them compressed may not have any effect if the design they are used in doesn't overcompress them and the materials/manufacturing are good.
Let's do this all again in a couple of weeks.
As far as this thread's specific topic goes, firearm mainsprings tend to not be over-compressed and since they are not considered a normal wear item, they are generally well-made from high-quality materials. I would not expect a firearm mainspring to weaken from the gun being left cocked. Offhand I can't recall of ever hearing or reading of such a case.
I got my dads guns when he died. Almost of them were cocked for well over 20 years. They all still work.
Bill DeShivs
New member
My statement was not meant to be constructive. It was meant to show the absurdity of people obsessing over gun springs. Most quality gun springs will not be harmed by extended compression within the design limit. If this were not the case, guns would be so unreliable that they couldn't be used for defense.
My spring making is generally in the restoration of antique switchblade knives-which I do professionally. Most, if not all, of these switchblade springs are broken from over-use. I don't recall ever having to replace one because it got weak.
My spring making is generally in the restoration of antique switchblade knives-which I do professionally. Most, if not all, of these switchblade springs are broken from over-use. I don't recall ever having to replace one because it got weak.
Here we go.
I have an personal anecdote that addresses this very question.
In the early fall of 1991, my stepfather's aunt died at a ripe, old age. Mid-90s if I recall.
Her granddaughters found her husband's old pistol in the attic, wrapped in a diaper and stored in a hat box. Uncle Will had been a town constable in Courtney, NC and part time railroad detective. He died in his sleep, and Aunt Emma found his pistol in the nightstand, and not knowing what else to do, wrapped it up and placed it in the hatbox in the attic, where it was forgotten until the girls discovered it.
Having no living male heirs, and being a little afraid of guns, they called Homer to come and get it. Then, he called me to tell me that he had the pistol and he thought it may be loaded.
When I got there, he handed me a nice commercial Colt Government Model that was indeed loaded...cocked and locked. I dropped the magazine and cleared the chamber. There were six rounds in the magazine. The serial number resolved to 1921.
After a cursory examination, I placed the loose round back into the magazine...locked it into the pistol...and stepped outside. I then proceeded to fire the gun to slidelock. It functioned perfectly.
The kicker? Uncle Will died a fairly young man in the summer of 1929. The pistol was cocked and locked...with six rounds in the magazine...for over 62 years.
I don't think you have much to worry about by leaving one in Condition One for a few weeks or months.
I have an personal anecdote that addresses this very question.
In the early fall of 1991, my stepfather's aunt died at a ripe, old age. Mid-90s if I recall.
Her granddaughters found her husband's old pistol in the attic, wrapped in a diaper and stored in a hat box. Uncle Will had been a town constable in Courtney, NC and part time railroad detective. He died in his sleep, and Aunt Emma found his pistol in the nightstand, and not knowing what else to do, wrapped it up and placed it in the hatbox in the attic, where it was forgotten until the girls discovered it.
Having no living male heirs, and being a little afraid of guns, they called Homer to come and get it. Then, he called me to tell me that he had the pistol and he thought it may be loaded.
When I got there, he handed me a nice commercial Colt Government Model that was indeed loaded...cocked and locked. I dropped the magazine and cleared the chamber. There were six rounds in the magazine. The serial number resolved to 1921.
After a cursory examination, I placed the loose round back into the magazine...locked it into the pistol...and stepped outside. I then proceeded to fire the gun to slidelock. It functioned perfectly.
The kicker? Uncle Will died a fairly young man in the summer of 1929. The pistol was cocked and locked...with six rounds in the magazine...for over 62 years.
I don't think you have much to worry about by leaving one in Condition One for a few weeks or months.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Thank you, Tuner.
I hoped you would enter this discussion sooner or later.
I hoped you would enter this discussion sooner or later.
This is my M.O. as well. I have 17 1911 style pistols and I don't believe in storing them "cocked". Don't see the point. I guess if I used a 1911 by my bedside it would stay cocked and locked, but I don't use one by my bed. I can release the hammer every night if I'm carrying a 1911 as my CCL piece.