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How long do you guys keep your powder?
- Thread starter FoghornLeghorn
- Start date
Alliant powder has a sample of one of the first runs of Unique from 1899. I read, but have never confirmed that they keep it submerged in water and periodically dry out and test a sample to see if it is still good, and so far, after 122 years, it still is.
But that sort of longevity is dependent on processes that can vary in their effectiveness. How perfectly acid-neutralized were the lots of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin that were used? How much stabilizer was added (assuming water hasn't taken that role over)?
Additionally, why, contrary to much of the long life reported for so many powders, did so many lots of IMR 4007 SC start to break down early and have to be recalled starting in 2015 until, finally, all past lots were finally recalled in 2019? Why did Accurate have recalls on their 2495, 4064, and 4350 made before 2016 in that same year? The explanation of blending with over-age old lots for burn rate control wouldn't seem likely to cross three different numbers in Accurate's case, so something in their original compounding had to have been off; too little stabilizer or overly acidic components or some such thing. And there have been other powders in other years.
Whatever causes a powder to go bad, it usually seems to be lot-related. Some lots are going to be great for an extremely long period of time, and others are going to drop dead prematurely. The question is, how do you know which one you have of which until you get there? You don't. So you keep in the habit of rechecking them whenever you load.
But that sort of longevity is dependent on processes that can vary in their effectiveness. How perfectly acid-neutralized were the lots of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin that were used? How much stabilizer was added (assuming water hasn't taken that role over)?
Additionally, why, contrary to much of the long life reported for so many powders, did so many lots of IMR 4007 SC start to break down early and have to be recalled starting in 2015 until, finally, all past lots were finally recalled in 2019? Why did Accurate have recalls on their 2495, 4064, and 4350 made before 2016 in that same year? The explanation of blending with over-age old lots for burn rate control wouldn't seem likely to cross three different numbers in Accurate's case, so something in their original compounding had to have been off; too little stabilizer or overly acidic components or some such thing. And there have been other powders in other years.
Whatever causes a powder to go bad, it usually seems to be lot-related. Some lots are going to be great for an extremely long period of time, and others are going to drop dead prematurely. The question is, how do you know which one you have of which until you get there? You don't. So you keep in the habit of rechecking them whenever you load.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
UncleNick said:Alliant powder has a sample of one of the first runs of Unique from 1899. I read, but have never confirmed that they keep it submerged in water and periodically dry out and test a sample to see if it is still good, and so far, after 122 years, it still is.
Nick,
I actually emailed them about that back in 2010. The conversation is copied verbatim below:
"We do have some very old Unique, over 100 years old, that we keep in
distilled water. We have tested it on occasion, but seldom, simply out
of curiosity. Hercules saved this powder and we will continue to
preserve it. Thanks for your note and have a nice day.
Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company"
I then asked if "keep in distilled water" meant the actual powder or simply submerged in a container;
"The powder is wet.
We do not recommend this type of storage with modern powder. The coatings and deterrents are different today than at that time. Thanks for your return note.
Ben Amonette
Consumer Service Manager
Alliant Powder Company"
Don Fischer
New member
I working on a 12# can of Red Dot that the red dot's are fading in. No idea how old it is but all metal can and guy that bought it originally died Back in the 1950's some time. 12# at the light loads I use with it, I will never run out. 7000grs to a pound x 12 = 84,000grs Divide that by 13grs and I get 64,615,385 rounds of 180gr 30-06 loads! Also had a suit case full of Super Ballistite that spent a long time looking for data for. Used 2 1/2grs in my 32 long with a 90gr bullet. That was the only load I ever found for it, no body even mention's it! No idea how old it it!
Jim Watson
New member
There was an illustrated gunzine article where a Hercules rep took some of that old powder out of its water jar, dried, loaded, and shot it.
When I divide 84,000 by 13 I get 6,461.5 and change.I working on a 12# can of Red Dot that the red dot's are fading in. No idea how old it is but all metal can and guy that bought it originally died Back in the 1950's some time. 12# at the light loads I use with it, I will never run out. 7000grs to a pound x 12 = 84,000grs Divide that by 13grs and I get 64,615,385 rounds of 180gr 30-06 loads! Also had a suit case full of Super Ballistite that spent a long time looking for data for. Used 2 1/2grs in my 32 long with a 90gr bullet. That was the only load I ever found for it, no body even mention's it! No idea how old it it!
Kevin Rohrer
New member
I keep it until used.
lll Otto lll
New member
I preserved a photo copy of the Unique article with a picture of the glass jar (which is no longer on the web IIR)
But the last time I posted an image it was yanked, so I don’t post photos or links here anymore.
But the last time I posted an image it was yanked, so I don’t post photos or links here anymore.
Constrictor
New member
I keep my powder until i need it to load cartridges.
valleyforge.1777
New member
Unclenick, et al:
So, how does the breakdown of powder change, if at all, in loaded cartridges? The gentleman's comment above this one states what had been my approach for many years: keep the powder until I want to load the cartridges. But lately I have been trying to load up as many of my components as I can for the "routine" cartridges that I shoot without ever changing long-ago settled-on load data, such as 9 mm, 223, and 357 Magnum. Should I expect that the powder in the loaded and stored ammo (cool, dry place, etc) will last longer in the loaded cartridges than if it remained, unloaded, in the stock bottles in which it came form the retailers over the years? Does it make any difference at all in terms of powder "longevity of useful life" if it is in loaded cartridges or unloaded in stock bottles?
Assuming non-corrosive primers and optimally stored finished loaded cartridges, should my ammo be useful for a very long time? We often hear of people shooting 30-'06 and 30-30 etc rounds from the 1960's that always go bang, right?
So, how does the breakdown of powder change, if at all, in loaded cartridges? The gentleman's comment above this one states what had been my approach for many years: keep the powder until I want to load the cartridges. But lately I have been trying to load up as many of my components as I can for the "routine" cartridges that I shoot without ever changing long-ago settled-on load data, such as 9 mm, 223, and 357 Magnum. Should I expect that the powder in the loaded and stored ammo (cool, dry place, etc) will last longer in the loaded cartridges than if it remained, unloaded, in the stock bottles in which it came form the retailers over the years? Does it make any difference at all in terms of powder "longevity of useful life" if it is in loaded cartridges or unloaded in stock bottles?
Assuming non-corrosive primers and optimally stored finished loaded cartridges, should my ammo be useful for a very long time? We often hear of people shooting 30-'06 and 30-30 etc rounds from the 1960's that always go bang, right?
Should I expect that the powder in the loaded and stored ammo (cool, dry place, etc) will last longer in the loaded cartridges than if it remained, unloaded, in the stock bottles in which it came form the retailers over the years? Does it make any difference at all in terms of powder "longevity of useful life" if it is in loaded cartridges or unloaded in stock bottles?
depends on how you store your ammo . Mine is stored in ammo cans with a desiccant inside . If that can gets opened often-ish the desiccant gets changed out . I'd think that loaded ammo will last quite awhile . IMHO the bigger issue is not keeping track of the powder lot numbers once the bottles are loaded into cartridges . Do you label your loaded rounds with the powder lot number as well ? If not "oops" because when ( and it will happen at some point ) you will have used a powder that has been recalled in those stored loaded cartridges and now what ??? You just hope it's been all shot up ???
Yes I do add the powder lot number to my ammo that is designated for long term storage . There's a reason they have lot numbers on factory ammo and it's not only if they were loaded wrong . They need to be able to track there loaded ammo incase the powder manufacture calls them up and says "we may have a problem with powder-A lot # 12345 . You might want to recall all the ammo you loaded that in .
I have powder that is 20 to 25 years old from when I purchased it and some newer. I've used powder I got with reloading equipment and if I have any questions about a powder, I burn it in a pile without constriction. Most modern powder stored in stable environment can last many decades and still be good for reloading as long as you keep it sealed when not in use. Powder will draw moisture from the air over time. I repackage powder from kegs I've bought in the past into smaller containers I label after I use a few pounds with as little air as possible. That way it stays fresh for longer.
Seems like a cop-out ... But I keep it until it runs out.... The only powder I had that I turned into fertilizer was a can of rifle powder once in all the years of reloading. Had a bad smell and a 'rust' colored powder dusting over the normal black. It was in a metal can. Our climate is dry and cool even during the summer, so have no concerns.
Had a bad smell and a 'rust' colored powder dusting over the normal black. It was in a metal can.
The metal cans are the major problem. Seems to be some chemical reaction going on there with the metal.
Don
A friend had a few hundred .357's to load, so we used most of an old one pound can of PB to create a mild 125 gr. hp load. That powder was in a metal can, purchased in 1983...and worked fine. The only powder I've seen eat through a metal container, was RE-7, and others of the same age, sitting on the same shelf, still look fine, 20 years later.