How fast to draw?

I used to be a regurgitator of the phrase," slow is smooth, smooth is fast." That means slow equals fast, for those with less math genes than me. Doesn't compute. Nor does it in reality.
Trainining should start out smooth, to get the mechanics down. If you're comfortable, you're really not pushing yourself. We should all come to a point where we are getting a little wild. Crank it down a notch, and work until that is smooth. Ever increasing speed and accuracy. I was able to train with and watched Scotty Warren draw and fire. He looked like a spaz. To him, he was in the zone. He definitly was not slow, he was fast. But he was fast and smooth. BIG DIFFERENCE. I believe if you're sitting on your backside, not wanting to increase your speed and accuracy b/c some dead cowboy said being slow and accurate is good enough, you are selling yourself short.
 
I've grown up with "The time to have a gun in your hand is BEFORE trouble starts" method. I've often heard people downplay the importance of even having the firearm readily available (IE in a zipper pouch taking 15 seconds to deply) because they assume they will have the gun in hand before anything bad happens. Awareness can take you a long way.... but be realistic.

Not only do I see a flaw in the circumstance that you are attacked without warning or interview... But it's very hard to get away with legally. Even in cases where the evil do have intent, deploying your weapon before they assault you, is intent on YOUR part... Reality doesn't matter, courtroom theatrics do.

From a survival standpoint - go for it.
However I don't consider prison to be living, so keeping my freedom plays as large a role in my carry etiquette as simple survival. I may even prefer to die than be labeled a convicted murderer, social scum, with life in prison. Some would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6, but I can't bring myself to be comfortable with that.

So from that personal standpoint, which no one else has to share... I place emphasis on the speed of deployment. I DON'T train for documented averages. I DON'T train for numbers calculated by defense guru's. I train my mind to believe the bad guy will react instinctively and quickly.
 
Double Naught,

I didn't post it, so I'm not sure, but I think the point is that you need to be able to draw and rapidly fire on threats that are not necessarily guns. I need to be able to quickly and rapidly stop a threat with a knife, hammer, shovel, axe, etc. If two people have (or even one person has)already drawn on me, I'm in trouble either way.
 
Breacher Up!

That's pretty much what it means, man. The point isn't to start out slow and smooth and then stay there forever. The fundamental principle of the "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" ideal is that if you practice slow and smooth then the speed comes naturally. It's all about muscle memory...if you practice fast and jerky and all jacked up, then that's how you're going to consistently perform. ..doesn't matter how cool you think you look in the mirror. If you practice slow and smooth and work your way up, then speed will be a natural byproduct of your training...speed shouldn't be your ultimate goal, it should just be something gained along the way.

There will be plenty of people who have enough personal experience to disagree, but I know what I have taught and what works for me. This is a tried-and-true philosophy for dynamic entry and CQB, it's how I learned, and it's what works for me.
 
Fast draw practice

Ok folks, here's my .02 worth for the question. Practice is a given! I was on the prowl one night and found some info. First in looking for a private range or gun club I met a member of the U.S.P.S.A. His suggestion was to join either USPSA or IDPA. Both of these organizations will give you what we are looking for. Practice at drawing and getting your shots off and making them count while being timed. The gentelman that I spoke with stated that he can, from the sound of the horn draw and let the first shot go in 8th's of a second. His statement is practice, practice, and practice some more. I do realize the competetors are using holsters made for competing, but that is quick. So IMO join either club and who knows where it may lead. He also stated a private club that you have use of from sun-up to sun-down will be a great help with the practice end of things. I'll be attending my first match on the 18th of this month.
I was told for equipment the holster must cover the trigger guard and you will need a total of 4 extra mags in pouches. Be prepared to use approx. 150 rounds for the match. 9mm is the minimum caliber for auto's and a 10 round clip. Give it a go! What do you have to loose?:cool:
 
Reaction time is just what it says... It is how long it takes to REACT to the threat... AVERAGE reaction time of the AVERAGE person is, in fact, about 2 seconds!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how you are defining "reaction". but the average response time from stimulus is .2 seconds.
 
15%

That is how low the documented accuracy of TRAINED LE drops to in real life gunfight situations from 95% accuracy at the range.

Situational awareness is number one, but there are so many posible scenarios that you can be caught with your pants down and need to draw fast and shoot.

I drove a gypsy cab in one of the worst neighborhoods in LA in the late 80's and saw plenty then. My biggest scare was not the gangbanger that held a gun to my head as a stunt to see if I would soil my underwear, it was the hooker that on April fools day got in and as I turned around to ask her destination she blasted at me one of those little plastic bottles that you pull a cord and confetti strings pops out. For an instant I believed I had just been shot, the last thing on my mind was the box cutter I kept under my leg for defense while I drove.

I got hooked to the adrenaline rush, every pasenger was a new adventure, you develop street skills very fast in an eniroment like that, got wise and got out after seeing another driver hold a rag ot a fellow cabbie's head after being shot point blank with a 38, he suvrived but I still catch miself checking my surroundings via my car mirrors when I park at the mall.

I personally believe that the one that fires first has the advantage, once someone blasts at you, even if he misses the shock will leave most of us, particularly those that have neer been there before (most of us for sure) unable to react like the "Rambo" we all like to think we are.

Another thing is that the one to fire first, even if he misses has already the gun out and ready to go for a second, third, fourth... shot. You have to be incredibly cool to just stand there and take aim to return fire in an accurate enough fashion to put two on the chest and one in the eye!

And it can be done, a competition shooter here bumped into a BG fleeing a robbery and got shot in the process, the BG saw the gun on the guy's waist and shot him in case'. The shooter got 2 shots from the floor before passing out, one went into the BG's side, the second also going through the car window killed the BG entering just in front of his ear as he drove away.

The flipside is that a LEO with many years in the force, admired for being a great shot and winning many range matches, got in a confrontation with a BG, 10 feet from each other emptied their guns at each other, neither one was hit.

Running as mentioned here alrady is not a bad idea, hitting a moving target under strees is not that easy, gives you time to get your gun out and fight proiding you have traned yourself properly to do so.

A similar tread is being discussed on another forum I frequent and one comment is that you react as you train, that cost the lives of some LEO on a gunfight because as they where trained to do they where picking up their spent shells from the floor in the middle of battle!
 
I don't think you need to worry about drawing fast at all. i have only been shooting for about a year now but i think i take it very very seriously, you know with a lot of respect. I think you might be thinking a life or death situation like its a bad western movie. You might want to consider learning how to draw effeciently before you get to the fast part. I mean there are alot of different holsters out there and alot of different carrying techniques. You need to first find which one is the absolute best for your situation example;do you spend alot of time in a car?, do you just walk everywhere you go?, can you carry open and if so would you be comfortable doing so?, you know stuff like that. after try various different methods start drawing very slowly at different angles and positions and such and hitting a perfect ten everytime. The speed will come after you are completely comfortable, you wont even realize it, it will just happen. Anyhow im not trying to act like a know-it-all because im not, just trying to give honest advice if you want to take it fine if not we all have different opinions. I for one am not even considering fast draw techiniques as i am still learning to be a better shooter in general.
 
However fast you can draw and shoot ACCURATELY. Numbers are great if you're defending yourself against a Timex, but being effective is key in the real world. I don't think anyone can put a number on how long it will take because situations vary with unlimited amounts. That said...i love quick draws and all that stuff.

The old west folks talk about drawing and shooting strait, not drawing the fastest...I can't think of the "gunslinger"s name, but it was time to throw down and his opponent fired twice before his first shot rang out, but his one was the only one that matter because it hit the target. There weren't many quickdraw gunfights in the old west, at least not nearly as many as you'd think from movies. Might have been Earp that I'm thinking of, but it could easily be someone else.
 
bruchi sez:
I personally believe that the one that fires first has the advantage, once someone blasts at you, even if he misses the shock will leave most of us, particularly those that have never been there before (most of us for sure) unable to react like the "Rambo" we all like to think we are.

Another thing is that the one to fire first, even if he misses has already the gun out and ready to go for a second, third, fourth... shot. You have to be incredibly cool to just stand there and take aim to return fire in an accurate enough fashion to put two on the chest and one in the eye!

The flipside is that a LEO with many years in the force, admired for being a great shot and winning many range matches, got in a confrontation with a BG, 10 feet from each other emptied their guns at each other, neither one was hit.
Click to expand...
bruchi +1

The sound of bullets flying past your head is a sound you never forget! Shooting at paper targets is quite different then shooting at a real person.
snolden sez:
Also, remember distance and cover. Practice shooting and drawing while moving. A simple lateral step will throw you far enough off his line that he will have a hard time reacting and hitting you in a vital organ. Do not stop moving. If you stop moving you are dead.
Click to expand...
snolden +1

It may be good to be a "fast draw" and "good shot" but you could end up being both with a knife stuck in your heart!

I'm finding it hard to believe that everyone walks around 100% of the time at the "ready", just waiting to draw and fire. Doesn't anyone ever carry any packages or anything else in their arms. How about heavy coats, sweaters or jackets, no suits or anything to hinder a fast draw? Does your wife/girlfriend never walk on your strong side as not to hinder your draw? How does one draw so fast while sitting down?

I've seen the USPSA or IDPA shoots on TV and they do indeed shoot very quickly and accurately but they don't have anyone shooting back at them either and are most likely using a firearm with a 1# or 2# pull which would not make a very good carry gun. Everyone would love to be able to empty a magazine like they do in the movies but very few people are talented enough to do that, at least not able to hit a moving target that's shooting back at them.

I'd rather take a few extra seconds and draw & shoot while I'm moving and put 1 in their head and 1 in their heart.

Oh BTW, something I learned a long time ago from a Korean martial arts master. If ever accosted by a BG with a knife or gun you should start begging for your life, "oh please don't hurt me!" yada, yada, yada! Pretend you're crying if you have to! It makes the BG think you are scared to death and you're going to be a push over. Take your money out and toss it to him and that's when you make your move because he's not expecting it.

Of course this is just my opinion and opinions are like you know what, everyone's got on! :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top