How do you stop felons from going into gun stores and gun shows, and private sales?

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A touch off topic but . . .

Private sales is the one thing I like about Illinois' Firearms Owner Identification card. I can sell a gun to someone who has a FOID and be reasonably sure that in they have passed a background check and are not a felon. I don't think I'd engage in private sales without that and would stick to selling back to dealers who deal in used guns.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
 
I'm about as conservative and law abiding as anyone, but this doesn't sound like a good idea to me for several reasons.

How about if a felon is a bad enough person that they shouldn't own a gun, maybe they should still be in prison!
 
When they are convicted of their felony....put a no guns allowed tattoo on their shoulder.
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but when would it stop? Do we tattoo a big red "A" on people with AIDS? Or a big red "H" for someone with Hepatitis? How about a big "C" for Christians or a "M" for Muslims?
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Or a pink triangle or yellow star on their clothes?

That's been done. Along with tattooing an identifying number on the forearm.

The people who did that aren't well thought of today, and for very good reasons.

At one time, a bit less than 50 years ago, a felon who had paid his debt to society (did all his jail and any other conditions) was not legally barred from having a gun. Reformed criminals have a right to self defense same as anyone. Or so they thought, then. Today, its not allowed.

and aren't we so much safer now?

and, after the next horrific crime, they'll pass more laws, and we'll be even safer!!
:rolleyes:
 
Prof Young said:
Private sales is the one thing I like about Illinois' Firearms Owner Identification card. I can sell a gun to someone who has a FOID and be reasonably sure that in they have passed a background check and are not a felon. I don't think I'd engage in private sales without that and would stick to selling back to dealers who deal in used guns.

Live well, be safe
Prof Young
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As a fellow Illinois resident I also like the background check for private sales. It's nice to know I'm not selling to some thug.

HATE the whole FOID thing though. It took me 2 months to get mine a couple years ago with a spotless criminal record.

And you still have to do a background check for each gun purchase. [emoji19]
 
How do you stop felons from going into gun storess and gun shows

Not much way you can distinguish or stop them fromg going in gun shops, dress shops, auto parts stores or gun shows.
They can't legally own firearms.
If, on parole or even afterwards, Cops might toss them to check them out and they better not have guns.
98% of crimes are committed by the same 2%.
 
Odds are that such a law would run afoul of the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause.

Another aspect is that straw purchases are a trivial percentage of all illegal acquisitions. Lotsa smoke, little fire. Per federal testimony at the time of the nattering over the assault weapon ban, some 86% of criminal-use firearms are acquired via theft or illegal purchase "on the street" from other felons. Some 10% to 12% were originally acquired in a legal manner and misused at a later date by the purchaser. Only around 2% of crime guns come from purchase at gunshows from non-dealers, or from newspaper ads.
 
Another thing to consider. Some states will allow a felon who has served out his sentence to petition the court to have his/her rights restored. If forced to get a tattoo, that takes away his right to have a judge restore his rights. Nope. I think that tattoo idea is no good. Personally, I have never approved of a gun control law based on a similar law put in place by Adolph Hitler. JMHO.
Paul B.
 
We dont need more laws, certainly dont need a tattoo.
Since 80% of all violent crime is committed by a whooping 10% of criminals.
That solution is self evident, cuts to the core of the problem.
And after you factor in the legal system cost associated with revolving door felons. It might actually be cheaper. We do pay both sides for most these guys.
 
So, with theories that criminal records, ostracization from society, poverty, and low education lead to the United States' uniquely high crime and recidivism rate, we somehow want to jail people longer, enact more laws for people to break, and alienate criminals by permanently marking their skin for having committed a crime?
 
Hey I know, we could all get "chipped", like we do with our pets. Then the gun store can just scan your arm and you either come up green or red. If you get convicted of a felony your chip gets re-coded to red. There could even be a cell phone app so you could scan a buyer yourself in a private sale.

And there's no big brother element to any of this at all. Maybe I'll email Jeb! or Hillary to share the awesomeness of this idea. :rolleyes:
 
I suppose a felon is a felon, but, the guy that got a felony conviction for stealing cable TV and was prosecuted by some DA that wanted to make a name for himself is one heck of a lot different than a murder, rapist, child molester, etc.
 
Hey I know, we could all get "chipped", like we do with our pets. Then the gun store can just scan your arm and you either come up green or red. If you get convicted of a felony your chip gets re-coded to red. There could even be a cell phone app so you could scan a buyer yourself in a private sale.

And there's no big brother element to any of this at all. Maybe I'll email Jeb! or Hillary to share the awesomeness of this idea.
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Yeah, right. No element of Big Brother at all there. Be careful what you wish for; You may get it.:D:D
 
Tattoo, no thanks. Just look how much trouble it is for state governments to ask for ID when voting....? Guess we need a voting tat.

If you are involved with a private sale and something bothers you.... don't sell or insist that they follow you to a gun shop to have a NICs check done.
 
A felony is a felony no matter what crime.
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Very Draconian outlook there. Yes, a felony is a felony, but, as I said, there's big difference between the 18 year old kid that stole cable TV and got railroaded by an overambitious DA, and a murderer, rapist, etc. For that matter, it's a felony to possess "unregistered" firearms in certain political subdivisions.

But, in your mind, "a felony is a felony."

Here's another one for you: Dad or Grandpa who served in WWII, Korea or Vietnam brought back an MP40 or AK, stored it in the attic 50-60- 70 years ago and forget all about it until he was cleaning out the attic one day. Lo and behold there it is! One of the "helpful" neighbors sees it, reports it and bingo!, Gramps or Pop is prosecuted for a felony for possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. Certainly no intent of breaking the law (probably didn't even know such law existed), but that law doesn't have any provision or leeway for "intent." Now he's a "felon."

But, as you say, "a felony is a felony."

Sadly, there are things that are felonies that shouldn't be; Until the laws are changed that's the unfortunate circumstance we have to deal with, but please don't take a black and white mind set that a "felony is a felony."
 
I suppose a felon is a felon, but, the guy that got a felony conviction for stealing cable TV and was prosecuted by some DA that wanted to make a name for himself is one heck of a lot different than a murder, rapist, child molester, etc.
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True, but that guy is not likely to be a repeat offender. If you pay attention when they report of a violent crime. Almost with out fail, esp if its murder.
That person has multiple felonies and usually multiple violent crimes on their rap sheet. And is WELL known to law enforcement and in most cases now days the mental health system.

What that shows me is that its not a problem of laws. We have enough.
We have had more than enough opportunities to stop these people before hand.
Its a problem with how we implement the laws and policies we already have.

Of course, Fixing it would not be easy, cheap or fun. Much easier to blame a gun and move on.
One way to do it. Let them out if you want. But you to have to sign off on them Make some one accountable for their actions if they let them out before the term is served. I mean they are letting them out now and NO ONE is accountable for it.
If you really think about it. Thats the responsible party. Its the people letting them out and washing their hands of the whole affair.

Here is a thought experiment for ya. lets say we have a criminal and he has a psychological issue that compels him to only break into Lawyers homes.
how many times do you think he would be let out of prison???
Now you know the answer.

They will sue the heck out of the Bar that serves a criminal some drinks and then kills some one. But the person responsible for putting them back out here with us. Ahhh we dont want to talk about that.
 
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How do you stop felons from going into gun stores and gun shows

Jail was not to be punishment but to hold the accused until trial and judgement or release.
Bring back the stocks and hard labor.
Anything less than a capital crime would be a day or two in the stocks, and whipping. Make them labor for a year to repay or in service to victims or longer.
Second offense hanging.
Capital Crimes like murder, trial and hanging.
If the murder left wife and kids or others without means of income, service replacing income for five years or longer, after 6 months hard labor and a day or two in the stocks.
Again second offense hanging.
Execution ,of judgment within one month, of trial.
Of course it would make Prosecutors and Courts reaffirm their dedication to the Law and not a conviction ,at any cost, for career.
It would empty prisons and stop repeat offenses.
Politicians, Bankers and others that betray the public trust lose all their possessions and a week in the stocks, 6 months at hard labor and hanging.
Would make them think about the long stint, before the gallows, for their treason against the Republic, us and our Constitution.
 
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