How do YOU hold an ar-15?

Well you should if you're used to it. I'd rather have muscle memory over .002 seconds you might gain with the magpul grip
 
That's pretty much where I'm at with it. I'm fond of the sig-block quote around here that says that combat is pretty much the worst time to learn something new.

Go with what you know and train hard on it. Magpul grip might be for you what it's just not for me.
 
Dude... That's awesome thanks for the confirmation haha. So basically what I'm figuring out here is that the "magpul" grip is for fast point shooting scenarios like a home invasion and the magwell grip is for long accurate shots (like soldiers would face if they aren't constantly kicking in doors)
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Perhaps in competition, but it seems impractical for combat scenarios. I know that I wouldn't be comfortable pieing a door or scanning the tops of buildings with my hand far up on the rifle as in the magpul grip. I could also see an issue with reloading quickly or weapon retention. It also isn't the best place for your hand if CQB turns into needing your rifle as a hand to hand combat tool. On top of that, I wouldn't want to be on patrol with my hand so far up; even if I carried the rifle a little differently while walking around, I wouldn't want to take the extra time trying to move my hand if an unexpected engagement were to occur.

Anyways, that is just my perspective. Take it with a grain of salt because just being in the Marine Corps does not qualify me as the know-it-all tactician. I'm not a GRUNT either, so perhaps one of them would feel differently.
 
I'm thinking that the thumb over grip works well with the AR mostly because of two thing: low recoil, . . . and high sight plane.

Trying to do that with a Browning Automatic Rifle (GI or Civilian) puts your thumb in the sight plane and does not give you the control you need for the recoil.

Same for M1Garand and M14, . . . IMHO.

But I also think it is quite useful in a CQB situation where fast acquisition of the target is necessary, . . . and one is practically doing all point shooting.

I'm still the guy who grabs a hasty sling on my AR, though, if I'm "out and about", . . . up close I have the hand wrapped around the base of my Vietnam triangular handguard, . . . right at the chamber end.

Just my $.02

May God bless,
Dwight
 
From my perspective, this isn't rocket science. Break out the timer and use what works for you. If you can get skeletal support and natural point of aim, you will have better control and fatigue less, which results in better aim.

If you can't get that, you want to use the big muscles in your back and shoulders to bear as much of the weight as possible because they can stay oxygenated longer and it will take longer for fatigue to kick in. An isoceles type stance lets your back support a lot of the weight.

Grabbing the magwell gives you better leverage but also makes it easier to overswing and leaves you with a lot of mass in front of your support hand. Going midway reduces leverage and mass and makes your arms do more work. Completely extending the arm lets you use some skeletal support and reduce the mass you are swinging around for better control.

So for me, it depends on what I am doing:
Shooting for accuracy with no time constraint at a more distant target - more High Power
Shooting multiple targets fast at close range? Thumb over - arm extended
Covering a target at ready for an extended period of time? Grab the magwell and rest my elbows on the top of my mag pouches and let the chest rig take the weight.
 
I forgot to mention in my last post...that the index finger forward is used with an exaggerated extension of the hand on the frontal portion of the weapon's forend.

I use multiple offhand stances for my shooting training with a rifle. I'll have to disagree with Swat's, Louis Awerbuck {The Lemming Factor, Training and Tactics, September 2010} "the trick is to determine which system works best for you and stick with it."

Their should be no single system or technique for offhand shooting. Each confrontation...might require a different offhand shooting shooting grip or stance --- as in a different grip in order to control recoil with multiple fast shot's --- or a different style that might require a precision long range offhand shot; as in triangulated skeletal bone support.

If you just grip the vertical foregrip... have one of your friends come over and grip the forend, and have him rotate the rifle back and forth. Now try Magpul's "thumb over" technique...and let him try to rotate the rifle. You'll find that the "thumb over" is a much firmer grip. It is also much easier to lock your wrist, with the thumb over grip.

You'll need to get the proper muscle sets for offhand shooting. Start off with 75 reps a night --- by raising an lowering a heavy rifle with your support hand --- with the butt of the rifle against your shoulder.

For most of my rifle and pistol shooting...I use Cylinder & Slide's nylon shooting strap --- with a slight pull forward on my support arm and hand --- while shooting offhand with a rifle. You'll find that you can hold the rifle against your shoulder for a long time without tiring. The Navy Seals, use a similar bungee cord system around there necks. The only thing that the sling does not prevent...is a flinch; though someone can come up behind you and garotte you with the sling around your neck.
 
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In my case the grip depends on which AR I am currently shooting and how much "stuff" I have on the rail, in other words how much weight forward is present. My "long range" AR has a scope and bi-pod on the end of the rail so I use the cupped under position for my weak hand about 2/3 rd's down the barrel when standing. I tried the magwell position with this AR and it has too much weight forward and I get tired too soon. My other AR was built as light as possible and grabbing the magwell works best for me with that set up.
 
As has been pointed out, this isn't really Magpul's technique, though I suppose they're responsible for bringing it back to the fore.

It's just not a comfortable setup for me, and despite all I hear about it being great for lateral targeting at close range, I just don't like having my arm out that far. It feels sluggish.

Also, this is really only a technique for AR-pattern rifles and similar setups like the SCAR or ACR, whereas all rifles are designed to be supported palm-under. Once I pick up the Tavor SAR, I'll probably mount a short vertical grip and call it good enough.
 
This thread has been very informative for me.

I'm sort of self-taught in the AR field. I usually just adapted my other rifle shooting techniques to the platform:
I put my left hand beneath the foregrip and I chicken wing my right elbow out 90 degrees from my butt stock.
The difference is that I usually take up my sling in my left hand and pull the rifle tight to my shoulder.

The hand over technique looks odd to me, so I never tried it, but I have never shot for speed. Maybe when/if I find more AR ammo, I"ll give this a go.
 
For over the course, ...

us the mag support for standing then grasp forarm when doing Sustained fire @ 200 & 300, with secong mag @ the base of the trigger arm elbow. For 600, the same just single load the rounds.

All done the same on: 1917 Enfield, M1 Garand, M1A & AR15
 
All this (holding the AR like a firehose) is something that I never saw even once during the 80s-90s-2000. I have never considered a AR to have any real recoil and I still hold the AR by the magwell.
 
Personally I've never took the liking to the thumb-over technique that most competition shooters use. It does look "cool" and I can see its purpose in competition, but its not ideal for everyone esp your casual range shooter or your military infantryman. The over-extension of your arms will make your limbs tired quicker during longer shooting, esp if you have to lug around a full-loadout of mags and gear for an entire day on your person.

Obviously competition shooters run stages in very short bursts and have breaks in between stages. They usually have lightweight rifles for this purpose, so this works well for them. When I do 3-gun there is plenty of breaks in between stages as you move from stage to stage, and take turns between shooters. We have "gun carts" to lug our gear which makes it convenient. In a real world scenario for a soldier on duty or a civilian hunting all day in the woods, its not ideal IMO.


I normally hold it under the middle of the handguard with a vfg/afg, and sometimes on the magwell.
 
For normal shooting, I hold it the same way as any other pistol grip carbine.

For close quarters practice, I tuck the butt stock under my armpit, and slide my off hand as far forward I can on the hand guard, with my off hand over the top (palm down, thumb under the forward hand guard)

This gives great leverage if the gun is grabbed.
 
Having trouble picturing this thumb over technique. Is that with your thumb joined with the rest of your hand so that you have a bend in your wrist?

I have held my M16 with the fore end resting in my palm with index finger kinda pointing forward and thumb separate from the fingers. And it was just ahead of the magwell.
 
I'm a magwell guy myself. In the AR platform, if a catastrophic case failure is experienced, you should be good to go. The gases usually ride down the magwell so as long as your hand isn't at the bottom of the mag itself, you shouldn't get hurt. I fire all rifles while standing with no sling support this way. Things change when I use a two point sling supporting hold. I will use the thumb over technique because it is more comfortable to hold the rifle that way with the sling and feels rock solid. It just simply isn't comfortable (my LOP is rather short, I'm a smaller guy) to thumb over in free standing with no sling.
 
Having trouble picturing this thumb over technique. Is that with your thumb joined with the rest of your hand so that you have a bend in your wrist?
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something like this I believe.

RM3G_lead.jpg


Although I think this below would generally suffice. The one above is an awkward hold for most shooters.


 
I personally don't like the thumb over grip. It just feels weird. If you have a quad rail it makes it even more uncomfortable.
 
I put an AB arms forend on mine and just hold it in the grip slot. I also put a verticals grip at the front, but don't find myself using it much. However, the set up is still new and hasn't seen much use, but so far I like it.

Not the beat pic, but here it is with my Mini14. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1370481813.392805.jpg
 
I don't have an AR but I have other rifles and use(d) different stances depneding on the situation.
In the standing, slow fire, precision disciplines I put my support hand under the mag and left elbow in my left side, right elbow down on my right, upper body canted backwards. Not very comfortable but the only way to hit the target at 100m with my Enfield.
For short range and more dynamic shooting I use the Magpul-like grip with the left hand extended forward, thumb forward or over the top of the forearm. It works well with semi-auto rifles and even my lever-action, shooting steel plates and such.

If reaching forward with your support hand tires you that's nature's way of telling you to work out. Well, at least for me it was.
 
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