How do YOU hold an ar-15?

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Pops1085

New member
I'm just curious as to the pros and cons of each type of way to hold an ar. I keep seeing the magpul thumb over technique being described but I feel like it leaves my body way too outstreached. I bet it works awesome for competition but is it really applicable for a real life self defense situation? What are are boys over seas being taught? Is the magwell hold really that bad?
 
How do I???

My Navy days - shooting the M14 - standing position:

my instructors showed me that supporting the bottom of the magazine with my support hand was perfectly acceptable if it gave me the most stability... it did, and it worked.

Fast forward to now (24 years later) shooting my AR15:

standing - same as above, bottom of (20 round) magazine resting on support hand

sitting - grasp Magpul AFG on forend

prone - grasp Magpul AFG on forend

Nowthen, if you are doing some hot-rod tactical multiple aiming point drill, better get that support hand out front so as to re-direct aim more quickly

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
 
I'm not a fan of having my hand on or near the mag...if a round blows up, a lot of the force blows down through the mag.
 
The reason thumb-over-bore technique is catching on so quick is how much more speed and control it gives the user. Your support hand is only moving a small portion of the barrel, which allows the user to drive the firearm from target to target quicker. I used the 'traditional' method of firing from the prone but would use the thumb-over-bore for CQB in the Army. That wasn't from the FM but it worked for me.
 
Assuming that you have the proper stance...the index finger pointed towards the target of your support hand, will still give you good recoil control --- but not as good as Magpul's "thumb-over" --- but I believe the index finger forward, gives the shooter a more relaxed natural point of aim. It is also a great grip {index finger forward} for some tactical shotgun's, because you probably don't want a thumb-over grip on a bare, hot shotgun barrel!!!

You can't use a index finger forward {right handed shooter} on a K-98 German Mauser, because the recoil will bang the tip of your index finger, up against the left side mounted sling mount.
 
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Not trying to start a flame war, I do get that the thumb over might be faster in a competitor setting but wouldn't a stance where you are way outstreached be a little more risky? With that support arm way out there chicken winging it your whole left upper torso is exposed. I mean if youre wearing plate in the military youre covered but even then I might want a bullet to go though an arm before it went through plate. (If it had that much energy) plus i've been shown how in weapon retention it is easier to be disarmed the farther apart your hands are from each other. I don't know I know I'm basically guessing here, not having ever been in a firefight so I guess I'm just looking for a speculative discussion. I have a friend in the marines and he said they didn't give them any special training on how to actually grasp the thing, just the way to stand and lean into it and whatnot.

Edit: I should add they did teach him how to hold it, but by resting the hand guards in the traditional palm up grip, nothing fancy.
 
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Shooting from the midpoint of the foreend in a classic palm-under hold has always worked for me. I've tried thumb-over and I just didn't care for how it felt. My lateral target acquisition felt sluggish compared to a closer-in grip.

I read in a shooting article written by an Olympian shooter that the thumb-over stance was for professionals and gripping the magazine well was for guys who want to look cool. I wasn't really impressed with that attitude, so I probably won't be converting to the Church of Thumb-Over anytime soon.

Just my take, of course.
 
It always irks me when people say that someone who does something one way is just doing it to "look cool". Occasionally it may be true, but I find that most of the time its a comfort thing.

I hold my magwell when I shoot. And I consistantly qualify sharpshooter, if not expert, during my annual qualifications while doing so. Why? Because it's more comfortable to me. I have short arms, so keeping both arms in to my sides is less fatiqueing...I've tried the simple palm up under the but I found that my muscle fatigue built up much quicker, and my accuracy suffered...

That being said, that's my preferred way to hold my personal AR as well : P
 
I think my discomfort with thumb-over is that I simply can't muscle a rifle around like that for a long time without getting tired.

A more classic hold lets me run the weapon longer and I feel like I shoot better that way.

That said, I'm picking up a Tavor SAR when I return home from AFG so the point is moot in that case. With about four inches of real estate, there's not a lot of options for holding an SAR.
 
In general, whatever works for you is what you should use. Thumb-over adherents are certainly convinced of the quality of the style, so I'm nobody to question that.

A lot of dudes I work with find the whole system to be a little silly, but perhaps that's because thumb-over has turned faddish in the shooting community, whatever its actual qualities are.
 
Been researching the technique a bit and what I've found is a bit interesting, turns out the thumb over support hand extended was invented in veitnam as a trick called the quick kill system for accurate quick follow up shots on full auto. Turns out its just a tool for quick engagements, not as the "best do-all" stance. Makes sense that the magpul guys look like they've reinvented the wheel when they show it off and have students try it and get faster times on courses. I think I'll practice it but stick with a vfg or a traditional rifle hold for everything else.

Just some food for thought for anybody wondering why so many people like the thumb over.
 
On the M16's and M4's I was taught to hold the magazine well for the most part (I'm sure it varies from coach to coach), but no one will correct you if you are on target at the range. It is really personal preference. Anyways, a lot of us have forward grips on the rifles, so we just use those when they are available.
 
It depends on what you're shooting (match wise).

A hold for offhand in High Power is a bit different then the hold one uses in 3 Gun or Close Quarters Marksmanship.

Without having the guy to coach, I recommend two books. Both by the Army Marksmanship Unit and sold by the CMP.

1: Service Rifle Guide
2: is really a DVD.. Close Quarters Marksmanship.

They show different styles, for different reasons, neither is wrong both are correct.
 
I agree. Use what works for you. The main reason I was offended by the Olympian shooter's remarks about mag-gripping is exactly what you said, SHE3PDOG.

I think guys like that sway a lot of less experienced shooters into using a style that may not be working best for them, while also invalidating shooting techniques the rest of us have been using for awhile to good effect. It also imparts the idea to newer shooters that other shooting styles are about looking cool, and his is about function.

It's a case of, "Well, this guy's an Olympian so he must have this stuff down."

I'm sure if I went to a Magpul Dynamics course and was made to shoot that way for a few thousand rounds I might get more comfortable with it and even get to where I like it, but I'm not going to pick it up over what I know has gotten me through qual after qual.
 
Pops1085 said:
Been researching the technique a bit and what I've found is a bit interesting, turns out the thumb over support hand extended was invented in veitnam as a trick called the quick kill system for accurate quick follow up shots on full auto. Turns out its just a tool for quick engagements, not as the "best do-all" stance. Makes sense that the magpul guys look like they've reinvented the wheel when they show it off and have students try it and get faster times on courses. I think I'll practice it but stick with a vfg or a traditional rifle hold for everything else.
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They were teaching it at Fort Polk (Tigerland) in 1968. There is nothing new under the sun.
 
Dude... That's awesome thanks for the confirmation haha. So basically what I'm figuring out here is that the "magpul" grip is for fast point shooting scenarios like a home invasion and the magwell grip is for long accurate shots (like soldiers would face if they aren't constantly kicking in doors)

And that's why vfg's in the middle rock :cool: ergonomic and right in the middle so no weaknesses
 
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