How do you guys do it?

I guess that is the one (and only one) good thing about NJ freakin gun laws. To buy a handgun you need a permit from the state, even for a FTF sale. Thus, if the buyer does not present you with the permit you don't sell it to them.
 
I guess that is the one (and only one) good thing about NJ freakin gun laws. To buy a handgun you need a permit from the state, even for a FTF sale. Thus, if the buyer does not present you with the permit you don't sell it to them.
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I guess I fail to see how this is a good thing.
 
Bill of sale. When I'm selling a car I don't ask if the person has a valid drivers license, insurance, etc. so long as I have a bill of sale it doesn't matter who they are or what they do with it. If they are not able to legally drive a car, well, its not my responsibility to check on that. I'm selling something, they bought it, that's as far as it goes.

Besides, if a convicted felon (who's also been adjudicated mentally defective) really wants a gun, they can just go to a gun show. Why deprive yourself of a sale, you are doing nothing wrong .
 
I'm selling something, they bought it, that's as far as it goes.
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Yeah...? So what in the world do you hope to accomplish with a Bill of Sale? Is there a requirement for such in your state's revised code?
 
Again, like selling a car: if they get into a hit a run, without a license, etc. when the police show up at my door (since i would be the last registered owner listed on their system) all I have to do is show them the signed, dated bill of sale (essentially a release of liability).

If you sell a gun FTF, and the purchaser was not legally able to have a gun, (mentally unstable, convicted felon, etc)shoots someone with it, etc. I would have a signed, dated bill of sale to show it was no longer mine at time of said incident. And here there are no restrictions on FTF sales, it's pretty common to see guns at garage sales.
 
I had a guy once tell me through email that he would in no way sign a bill of sale. My ad clearly stated bill of sale for my records only. My next email to him was that it had been already sold.
 
. I would not feel comfortable selling a handgun to someone with out a check. Any thoughts?
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Do you do the same when selling a car to make sure he isn't a drunk driver? Or if you sell some knives at a garage sale, to make sure he isn't some serial killer? No checks required in Florida - STOP buying into the antis message that we need background checks on personal sales of private property. No checks, no writing down names or DL numbers or using a Bill of Sale. Take a look at a DL if you want, then take his cash and wish him well - it really isn't too hard to .

I just bought a handgun from a private party at a flea market - showed her my CWL, handed her the cash and walked away, no big deal
 
Ever see the movie heat where De Niro's character goes to sell the stolen bearer bonds to the banker from whom he stole them?

:eek:
 
Sierra280 said:
Bill of sale. When I'm selling a car I don't ask if the person has a valid drivers license, insurance, etc. so long as I have a bill of sale it doesn't matter who they are or what they do with it. If they are not able to legally drive a car, well, its not my responsibility to check on that. I'm selling something, they bought it, that's as far as it goes.
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The difference is that there isn't a federal or state law making it illegal for YOU to sell an automobile to someone who doesn't have a driver's license, or who lives in another state. There ARE federal (and state) laws pertaining to this when selling firearms, particularly handguns. Pertaining to the seller, not to the buyer. (There are other laws for the buyers.)

That said, the federal law does not require a private seller to run a complete background investigation on a prospective buyer. The law says that you shall not sell a firearm to someone whom you know is a prohibited person. (It may say know or have reason to believe, or something like that.) Since the law is non-specific, it's up to each individual to decide for him/herself what level of comfort is required to feel confident that your buyer is not a prohibited person.

You could just ask, and if the answer is "No," leave it at that. For a handgun, a driver's license shows state of residence, but doesn't answer the prohibited person question. A carry license/permit, or an FOID for those states that have such, DOES answer that question.

I don't like the idea of selling firearms, but about a year ago I did sell a rifle ... so I could replace it with a better one. But the buyer was a co-worker, I know he lives in the same state, and I know he already owns firearms because he has joined us at a couple or three Friday after-work range sessions. Therefore, I had no reason to believe he is a prohibited person, I can articulate the reasons WHY I had no reason to believe he was a prohibited person, so I feel comfortable that I have met the legal requirement.
 
When I do FTF deals my questions for the seller are quite elaborate. They are as follows:

Are you a resident of Oklahoma?
Is there anything that forbids you from legally purchasing this firearm from me today?

I feel that second question covers everything rather than run them through a basic 4473 questionnaire verbally.
 
I've always considered it good business practice to document transactions, especially when dealing in any item of significant monetary value. During the course of my career trying to help people sort out difficulties I've found that good documentation is helpful, and poor documentation can make things much tougher.

I know that some people will not do business with me on my terms. That's fine with me. Everyone gets to decide how much and what kind of risks he's willing to tolerate.
 
ripnbst said:
When I do FTF deals my questions for the seller are quite elaborate. They are as follows:

Are you a resident of Oklahoma?
Is there anything that forbids you from legally purchasing this firearm from me today?

I feel that second question covers everything rather than run them through a basic 4473 questionnaire verbally.
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That 2nd question is what always goes on my simple hand written bill if sale. And yes I feel that covers everything.
Really if you think about, a copy or receipt should go to the buyer too of unknown parties. This would help protect buyer that it was purchased,not stolen. Even if sellers name isn't in it.
 
For those who like the idea of a bill of sale, please explain what possible purpose is served by giving the buyer a bill of sale that does NOT have the seller's name and address on it? (See posts #20 and 27.)

This sounds to me like rampant hypocrisy. It would appear that you care enough about a paper trail to protect yourself, but you're not willing to let the buyer have equal protection for himself. Is that really fair, ethical, or moral?

Either do bills of sale ... or don't.
 
Again, in FLORIDA, there is no gun registration, no requirement for a BOS between private parties having a meeting of the minds and that have come to an agreement for the transfer of certain assets from one party to the other for the mutually agreed upon consideration. I keep a gun log of every gun I have ever owned, still own or have sold. IF I know the buyer's name (as mentioned above, a co-worker), I'll enter it, but otherwise I have a notation that I sold it on a certain date for $XX

You can also make up a Excel spreadsheet or a database and do the same thing. I do it more for insurance purposes so I have a record of guns serial numbers and value in case of theft or fire

Still do not get this out of control paranoia about selling a gun without having a proctologist check out the buyer beforehand
 
I don't know about private sales, but some states have laws prohibiting a dealer from selling a car to anyone who doesn't have a valid driver's license, and federal law requires car dealers to report sales for cash.

I have only rarely sold a gun in a private sale, and that was to persons I knew were OK. Law or no law, if I were to sell a gun in a private sale to someone who misused it in some really bad way (perhaps the murder of a prominent person), "they" would find some way to lock me up for a long time. Even dealers who obey the law can suffer if that kind of thing happens. (Klein's Sporting Goods "went out of business" not long after they sold a Carcano to the wrong guy.)

Jim
 
OP, I would echo Pahoo's advice. If your FFL won't do it, I'm sure there are others that will. I don't sell a gun very often. I sold one early this year that just didn't work for me. One of the conditions of the sale was doing a transfer at my FFL, which I would pay for. Its not a requirement in my state, but I prefer to CMA. If the person didn't want to do it that way, it was a red flag to me. If for some reason that pistol turns up under sketchy circumstances, I like knowing that I have legal proof that I no longer own it.
 
OP, I would echo Pahoo's advice. If your FFL won't do it, I'm sure there are others that will. I don't sell a gun very often. I sold one early this year that just didn't work for me. One of the conditions of the sale was doing a transfer at my FFL, which I would pay for. Its not a requirement in my state, but I prefer to CMA. If the person didn't want to do it that way, it was a red flag to me. If for some reason that pistol turns up under sketchy circumstances, I like knowing that I have legal proof that I no longer own it.
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This is along my line of thinking also. I will talk to a couple of other shops in the area.
 
Again, NOT required here in FL (where you are); and again - do you run a background check on someone when selling him a car? after all, more folks are killed by drunk drivers than by guns - you are playing right into the antis hands.
 
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