*How do you defend yourself against a terrorist on a plane with a knife?*

"HELL NO we don't need armed sheriffs aboard airplanes. if that in fact happens, then who will protect us from the armed sheriffs?"

Who will protect me from your absurd posts ?

A comedian once joked about hearing something so stupid, it almost gave him an aneurism trying to make sense of it. Everytime I read one of your posts, I am reminded of that joke. For your sake I hope you were joking and that you're just a troll.
 
Issue to every adult passenger, when boarding the aircraft, a suitable pistol (Glock would be fine :-)), loaded with suitable ammunition. If anyone suggests a change of route, take a popular "vote". Appropriate safety instruction by flight attendants (just like the "O2 mask, exit and lifejacket" routine): "In case of emergency, align the sights on your pistol with the center of the chest - or whatever part of him is visible - of the nearest person suggesting a change of flight route. Slowly and gently press the trigger to the rear. Repeat as necessary."
 
You forget or dont know...

...
that the terrorists told the passengers that they had explosives strapped to themselves,if there was an attempt...
Bang.
 
Also, if we "armed everyone" then terrorists would simply use "Sleepers" who didn't aggressively jump up with the other terrorists... if SHTF then that person would blow the plane. There's very little defense against the motivated irrational suicial terrorist.

Not that I don't believe philosophically, that people are better off down here on the ground being able to defend themselves, but up in the air is a tactical situation totally loaded against you with no simple solution, IMO.
 
Hey guys,

Correct me if I'm wrong but last I heard, you were allowed to carry a pocketknife onboard a plane, provided it was non-serrated and sub-3 inches. You can do a lot with something like that. I like the keys idea. I'm guessing they already outlawed brass knuckles...

Marlin
 
I remember a post made by Rich a long way back about the use of canes in self defense. It seems there are a number of companies that offer specially designed canes and training in their use. I think this may be something to think about. Especially since we arent going to be able to have knives on an airplane anytime soon. But, who is going to tell you not to carry you cane on board? In he right hands that could be a pretty good weapon particularly against an opponent with a knife.
 
A-Team: I am serious here. what if the terrorists penetrate security and one of the terrorists is disguised as an armed sherrif?

what if the sheriff loses it one day and decides to hijack the plane?

remember, in order to have a free society one must have the ability to protect themselves. if you have an armed man aboard then there is no chance of defending against this. but if they have knifes then there is at least a chance as was the case in which one of the four terrorists plane crashed in the boondocks and didn't reach d.c. as a result of the crew fighting back against the terrorists.
 
No more knives on planes, Marlin. None. New FAA regs as of Weds.

cyeager, I've got a bum hip (car accident when I was a kid) that makes it difficult to stand for long periods of time, so my doc actually TOLD me to get a cane. I picked up one of the Canemasters Gentleman's canes - nice solid hickory stick with no yin/yangs engraved on or sharp hooks ground into it. I would certainly use it if I were on a plane and the opportunity presented itself, but you're talking some pretty close quarters (at least in the class seats where I travel!). I think that would severely hamper its use (though I'd still be delighted to have it).

I think a yawara stick might be more versatile overall. Put that in your strong hand, put a rolled-up newspaper in your off-hand for jabbing, wrap some cloth around the off-hand for slash-protection, and aim for the tea towel.

Although, as of today, your best bet is to hug your knees while the sky marshall shoots for the tea towels.
 
A quality pen would be a reasonable stabbing device. That's great for injuring, but not stopping. A stab to the throat may be the best you could hope for with that? Still would not incapacitate immediately. But it would go great with business attire...
 
I'm sure that once all the details come out from the various cell phone calls from the planes, we will learn that the decision(s) to resist the hijackers were made after the passengers realized that the plane(s) were to be used as ramming devices against Very Important Targets.

At that point, the boomyou'realldead factor becomes irrelevant. Preventing the greater harm becomes the passengers' goal, and worries about the terrorist pilot grounding the plane not longer matter as well, because that would also both thwart the terrorist's ultimate goal, but also accomplish the passengers' goal.

So, can the passengers voluntarily (or by majority vote or even by coup) sacrifice their collective lives to deny the terrorists their goals. YES!!! Greater love hath no man...

Comes a point when my life doesn't matter much, because I MUST prevent evil from conquering.

After all, how much good does the old-style hijacking do if there are no living passengers left to throw from the plane after it lands in Libya?

If we don't cooperate, the best they can hope for is a big body count. They won't get to broadcast their demands on world TV, and they won't be able to ram any innocent victims, either.

Resistance is futile?? Big fat hairy deal!! Our resistance will muck up THEIR goals too.

BTW, the issues of round penetrating the airframe and compromising control systems has already been addressed. Why do you think the Glaser SAFETY SLUG and other limited-penetration bullets were developed?

Gee whiz, tell the bullet designer what you want the slug to do (from a pure physics standpoint), and they WILL find a way. Stopping power is less scientific because of the biology factor, but we CAN make the perpetrator bleed a lot, hurt a lot, and maybe lose control of any weapons with a CNS shot.

Air marshals were abandoned partly because of the cost. Armed aircrews are a better answer.

_____
what if the sheriff loses it one day and decides to hijack the plane?
_____

Come on, eyeball, we face that threat EVERY DAY in EVERY PLACE where we have armed humans. If you really think that's a valid objection, then you're asking for an absolutely impossible level of security. Anwar Sadat and many other world leaders have been killed by their own security people over the last century, and THAT risk can only be minimized, never eliminated.

Price of freedom, a price that is still paid under tyrrany!
 
You all seem to sound like you have never been in an airliner. Have you noticed how narrow and crampt it is up front getting to the pilots cockpit? Do you really think through such a narrow place 40 or 50 people 'rushing' them will be able to do more than jam up like the 3 stougies? The will have at most 2 of you to fight at once. And the terrorist will have knives, you won't. And I am sure they will be trained to use the knives in that type of situation and be quite fit.

May I suggest.... Wear a bullet proof (and knife puncture proof) vest on the airlines. If not allowed to bring a small knive (which I doubt, knowing those stuipd administrators) then either a very hard small (I do mean small) case that is metal reinforced at the corners) or a cane (with doctors prescription) and a fake limp. The terrorist will not know you have a vest on. Use the case or cane as your weapon. Do not depend on any help from other passengers. 99 percent are sheep. Expect to be hurt bad. Might even have first aid kit (for severe cuts and blood loss) in the case you are using as a weapon.

I would also suggest some real serious training on how to use a knife, how to defeat a knife (without you gun), and how to use other convient weapons.

Deaf
 
I fly a great deal in my job, and have often played out this type of scenario. The sticking point for me is this: what would your response be if the plane got up to cruising altitude, a highjacker stands up and slashes someone's throat (thereby indicating his level of seriousness), then grabs up a baby or a child and begins issuing commands. Now what? I'm no hero, but I guess I would be willing to rush one of these guys in desperation, knowing I'm gonna be cut pretty good...but what about that child?

I suppose it may become apparent after some time that the entire plane is going down, but would you be willing to make the first move and let the scene play itself out? I have to wonder if something like this in fact didn't happen. I'm sure we'll never know.geegee
 
"Come on, eyeball, we face that threat EVERY DAY in EVERY PLACE where we have armed humans. If you really think that's a valid objection, then you're asking for an absolutely impossible level of security. Anwar Sadat and many other world leaders have been killed by their own security people over the last century, and THAT risk can only be minimized, never eliminated."

- posted by Cheapo

----------------------------

yeah but the difference with this scenario is the potential to do mass harm. I mean, a plane could take out 50,000 people whereas one sheriff who lost it could only take out like 5-10 people.... that is 5000 LESS people the sheriff can't hurt.

armed security inside of airplanes is a big no no.
 
Number of people vs. number of BGs

I just want to add to the problem of large numbers of people vs. a small number of Terrorists etc. I am not a martial artist but I did read somewhere in some information on Aikedo that in defending yourself against multiple attackers it gets easier when the number gets greater than somewhere around four. Any more than that tend to get into each others way. This statement was made about a fight in the open, so it would be worse in a confined area. Of course this is assuming the person is trained in defending against multiple attackers. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, it has been a while since I read it.
Calvin
 
calvif: The idea that large numbers of attackers are easier to fight is just not true. It is possible for team members to get in the way of each other but it isn't a given. If your fighting people that are not trained to fight together or simply against unskilled opponents you might be able to cause some confusion. But they still have the simple advantage of numbers. Say you face 5 goblins & you can kill 4 by jumping up and landing a "death blow" with each limb at the same moment in time, which leaves you with no way to block the 5th goblin from crushing your throat while you hang there in the air.

Put any martial artist you want on a football field against 11 defensive football players and watch what happens. Heck just use 5 football players without pads and stuff...if they are good college or average NFL player the martial artist probably won't be able to run fast or far enough to get away. Remember football players are used to running with a bunch of extra weight on them.

Or next time your in a dojo with a large number of people have a black belt volunteer to take on the class. Split into 3 or more groups and flank the target.

The reality is that two people that are weaker and of much lower skill level can easily take a single good MA if they work together at all. The team seperates enough so the single person has to comit against one or the other [or in other words your seperated enough that even a fient would have to be clearly directed at one team member not at the team as a group]. Then you can either wait for the solo person to attack. The attacked team member simply defends & the other team member gets to attack. Or both team members attack at the same time.
 
Yeah, I got to thinking about it last night after I had posted and realized the errors in my statement. I guess thats what I get for posting something I read without thinking it through.

Getting back to the original topic, thinking about your statements about the numbers of people beating training. I am thinking that the confined isle of the airplane while limiting the number of people who can face a BG at a given moment would be an effective funnel. If everyone rushes down the isle and the first person can somewhat restrain/block the BG at all (maybe with a couple of seat cushions) and the rest push from behind the BG would either be on the floor pinned in a high school style "dog pile" or pinned against a bulkhead. Then once pinned he could be easily be taken out. I remember in high school, about 20 of us almost accidentally crushed the assistant guys dean goofing off and "dog piling" him, we didn't think about the fact that he had 1000+lbs of weight on him, he was gasping for air for several minutes afterward.

Calvin
 
It would be fine if you could all huddle together in the airplane, shout 'Dogpile!!' and all run together toward the terrorist. Unfourtunaly, you would look back and see just maybe a few following, the sheeple would all still be huddled together.

I don't know if you could get many to help. It would depend on the makeup of the passengers. If they were all from Israel. I think there would be a mass dogpile! If, they were all liberal limb-wristed Barbara Strisanders, well...... LOL.

Just make sure you are as prepaired as YOU can be. Then expect to get stabbed.

Deaf
 
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