How do you carry in states that don't have reciprocity

I just read through the laws pertaining to transportation of weapons in Ohio, and it appears that 62coltnavy is right; there is no indication that ammo has to be locked separately. It does have to be separated so as not to be easily accessed if in speed loaders or magazines though. It appears that an unloaded handgun with the magazine removed could be stored in one compartment of a range bag, and the loaded magazine in a separate compartment so long as one or both is closed by a fastener that must be opened to access the contents. It also appears that the magazine or speed loader can be in a pocket or enclosure on your person so long as it is closed by a fastener.

There is much nonsense when it comes to gun laws, and even more in how many of those laws are communicated and interpeted. I have more than once been told by law enforcement officers that guns and ammo must be locked separately. It ain't so here either!
 
From AB:
"Both Connecticut and New York also have 10 round magazine capacity limits. Possibly also New Jersey -- I should remember, but I don't."

NJ legislature passed a 10 round mag limit but Gov. Christie vetoed it. I'm sure it will come up again when Christie is out of office and the libs vote in a lib governor.
 
I guess the safest bet would be to research each States requirements that you are going to be passing through
Click to expand...
This is the best advice you're going to get...even if your intended travel plans appear legal, defending that decision to an over-zealous LEO or the county prosecutor is going to be frustrating at best, and very expensive if they take it to the courts. Rod...
 
I believe Federal law trumps all state laws with respect to traveling with firearms when passing through a state. If you intend to stay in a state then you are subject to that state's laws with respect to firearms. I believe stopping for gas or lunch, or even for an overnight stop, are acceptable so long as it is clear you are passing through and do not intend on staying. Perhaps one of our legal experts can clarify.

TomNJVA
 
I think the way the OP was worded has very much confused the responses.

The title asks
How do you carry in states that don't have reciprocity?
Click to expand...

The answer is, "YOU DON'T"

and this
I guess the safest bet would be to research each States requirements that you are going to be passing through
Click to expand...

The body of the post asks this:
For example the Ohio CCW Reciprocity isn't good for illinois, so if I drive through illinois whats the best/legal way to store a handgun?
Click to expand...

The answer is,
As already noted, for interstate transport through states that don't recognize any of your permits, the federal FOPA law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A
Click to expand...

They are two totally different questions with different answers.
 
TomNJVA said:
I believe stopping for gas or lunch, or even for an overnight stop, are acceptable so long as it is clear you are passing through and do not intend on staying. Perhaps one of our legal experts can clarify.
Click to expand...
Google Revell v. Port Authority of New York & New Jersey.

IMHO any voluntary stop for any reason is risky. The Revell case admittedly isn't directly applicable to ground travel in a personal vehicle, but its outcome isn't promising either, and AFAIK there has not yet been serious court precedent contesting the FOPA travel protection as applied to personal ground travel. It's one of those "Do I want to be the test case?" scenarios. I certainly don't want to be. :(
 
For those who don't know or might not remember, Greg Revell is the gentleman who was on an air trip through Newark International Airport, with a flight change at Newark. Due to a delay, he missed his connection so he retrieved his luggage (which contained a properly declared and legally packed handgun), spent the night in a hotel on the airport grounds, and was arrested the next day when he arrived at the check-in counter and attempted to again declare his firearm.

IMHO the Revell case is a good lesson in why, if you are delayed in making a connecting flight, you should NOT reclaim your luggage but insist that the airlines retain custody of it until you (and your luggage) arrive at the intended destination. Beyond that, I don't see much about the case that sheds any light on travel by auto.

First, Revell was arrested by the New York New Jersey Port Authority police. You're not likely to find them doing radar speed traps on any highway, probably not even the New Jersey Turnpike. Second, the Revell case became an example of the saying "You may beat the rap but you can't beat the ride." Mr. Revell was NOT convicted of any crime. He did get to spend a delightful, all expenses paid weekend in a New Jersey jail, but after that the prosecution eventually declined to prosecute. So there wasn't even a trial. My own theory (and I don't know if the resident legal minds here agree) is that the prosecutor saw that he was probably going to lose if he brought the case to trial so, rather than have a loss on the record which might then serve as guidance in other cases, he chose not to try the case.

The key point I get from the Revell case is that the FOPA simply didn't contemplate travel by any means other than private automobile. The FOPA law wants your gun(s) to remain locked up and not convenient to you in the passenger compartment of your vehicle while transiting through intervening states between your starting point and your destination. Obviously, if you have a flight change that requires reclaiming your luggage at an airport in an intervening state, you simply can't comply with that requirement. And yet changing to connecting flights on other airlines, perhaps small, regional carriers, is a VERY common part of normal travel today.

With respect to overnight stops when traveling by car, the FOPA doesn't say you can't stop -- but it doesn't say you can. It is silent. There are two issues/questions: First, does an overnight stop (at an interchange motel, purely to eat and sleep) make that state a "destination," in which case the FOPA says your possession of a firearm must be legal in that jurisdiction? Or is it simply an overnight pause that's part of a single leg of a trip from one other state to a different other state? The law doesn't address that.

Second, if we assume (will all due cautions about assuming) that an overnight sleep stop does not create a new destination, what do you do with your gun(s) during the stop? The law doesn't appear to make any provision for taking it/them into your motel room for the night. To be strictly in accordance with the law, it would appear that you might have to leave the gun(s) locked in the vehicle for the night -- thus exposing them to potential theft.

The law says what the law says. We can all read it. I am not aware of any cases that have been tried under the FOPA, so there's not much out there in case law to look to for guidance.
 
If one is passing through a large state, such as Texas or Montana or the length of California, a stop for food and gas is inevitable, as a night in a motel may be as well. It would seem that an arrest for such a stop is counter to the spirit and intent of the FOPA that one should be able to pass through a state with firearms properly stored. Of course that doesn't mean that local LEOs would or could make that judgment, and a legal entanglement could still ensue.

TomNJVA
 
TomNJVA said:
It would seem that an arrest for such a stop is counter to the spirit and intent of the FOPA that one should be able to pass through a state with firearms properly stored.
Click to expand...
And an arrest would be counter to the intent of the FOPA. That's why the FOPA falls so short -- it's totally inadequate to properly and fully address the realities of modern travel. The language seems to have contemplated only one-day trips by privately-owned automobile. The result is that any jurisdiction that doesn't agree with the intent can usually find enough wiggle room to at least create problems, if not secure an actual conviction.
 
And an arrest would be counter to the intent of the FOPA. That's why the FOPA falls so short -- it's totally inadequate to properly and fully address the realities of modern travel. The language seems to have contemplated only one-day trips by privately-owned automobile.
Click to expand...
The simplest explanation of the language is that it reflects what Congress could get passed. If they had put more detail into it, either excluding or expressly including stops during the travel, it may not have passed.
 
Ref: Ill.

I will never advise that anyone break the law, but in reality the possibility of being stopped and searched is extremely remote
Click to expand...

I got a pretty good scare on this subject. My wife was visiting her parents in Indiana. She has a permit in Wyoming, Indiana recognizes Wyoming and visa versa, no problem right???

She wrecked her care just after she crossed into Indiana from ILL. The car had to be towed. The police investigating the accident asked if there was anything she wanted to get out of the car before it was towed. She told him she had her revolver in the vehicle and where it was located, showing her WY permit. The officer got the gun, unloaded it. And took her to the police station where she waited for her brother. When she left the officer gave her gun and ammo back, NO PROBLEM.

But what if she had wrecked on the Ill side of the line. I'd probably still be making my own dinner.

True, chances are they, nothing would happen. But things, accidents for example, do happen.

Ill is not a state I would take any chances in. I was contacted riding through northern ILL on a MC one time. I have a leather jacket from my department that I use on my MC. It still has the Anchorage PD patch on it. I was contacted by a group of OFF DUTY Chicago police officers on a MC tour and they started, rudely inquiring where I got the jacket and if I was carrying or not. They didn't seem very happy when I admitted I was. This was just after Chicago had to pay a large settlement for false arrest for arresting a retired cop for carrying per the LEOSA.

I highly recommend if you have to travel through that state, lock your gun in a locked box, separate from the ammo, and locked in your trunk.

You never know when you'll get into a traffic accident. You can be minding your own business, driving through, and some one could run into you. You're found with the gun and end up in jail, All for just passing through.
 
Even in a state in which you are totally legal, you will most likely get a free background check by the officer if it is discovered that you have a firearm.

I even got one back in Texas for having a rifle in the truck (legal) and I even had a CHL
 
I've got to say this, Chicago, and surrounding area, does not represent all of Illinois law enforcement. Some of us, especially in the true southern part, south of I64, know and understand the law.

Truthfully, our dispatchers don't even advise officers if their inquiry has a CCL, in state or not. When I get one on my MDC, I might ask if the home state is must inform, otherwise, I just watch hands as best as I can as on every stop.

Chicago is a different beast, as is the surrounding areas. And home to some of the most arrogant cops I've ever had the displeasure of running across. Although...

Yesterday I stopped a retired CPD officer for speed, and amazingly, he didn't badge me. He advised he was carrying, and when I asked what, he could only answer a S&W 9mm. I told him that if he knew the model by the time I ran his dl, I'd give him a warning. Not only did I get model, 3rd gen 6946, but he gave me the serial number as well. We discussed the firearm a bit, had a few laughs and he went on his way. I wish all CPD officers had his attitude.

On topic, in Illinois, with a valid out-of-state ccl, you can indeed carry, loaded, in the vehicle, but not on person. I do believe they are working on some reciprocity, but am unsure.
 
mrray13 said:
Truthfully, our dispatchers don't even advise officers if their inquiry has a CCL, in state or not. When I get one on my MDC, I might ask if the home state is must inform, otherwise, I just watch hands as best as I can as on every stop.
Click to expand...
What difference does it make if someone's home state is "shall inform"? If you are in Illinois, Illinois laws apply. Likewise, if someone whose home state is not "shall inform" travels to a state that is "shall inform," that traveler had better know the law of that state and conduct him/herself accordingly.
 
Virginia will do the same thing beginning JULY 1, 2016.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of surprised that VA didn't do it sooner.

When I got my permit there in 2001 (in Hanover County, near Richmond) they didn't even finger print me and the license itself was just an un-laminated piece of paper folded up and stuck in a small, business card sized envelope. I say that because it seems like it's less rigorous than other states that require finger printing.
 
I realize this thread is almost a year old but the OP asked about transporting through Illinois most people replying seem to think that you must transport according to federal law. Actually Illinois transport laws are better than many states. You only need to have your firearm encased and unloaded and ammo or a loaded magazine can be in the case or container. A console is considered a case and it need not be locked only closed and the firearm completely enclosed. Our carry law made transport uniform throughout the state.

Also as someone stated you can have a loaded handgun in your vehicle if you have your states LTC, you just can't exit the vehicle with it loaded. If you unloaded it and put the handgun and loaded magazine in a fanny pack or other such case you'd still be legal. Of course you couldn't take it into a school or court house or such a place.

Illinois also has good self defense laws, no duty to retreat, and similar to "stand your ground".
 
Illinois' carry law allows for ccw by permitted residents of other states driving through the state.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, that provision applies while the permittee is in the vehicle.

A loaded firearm must be left in the locked vehicle while the permittee is not in it.

An unloaded firearm may be carried in a shipping case or a firearm container.
 
Same way I carry everywhere, including NY City, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. With my retired badge and LEOSA credentials in my pocket! :D:D:D

Hopefully, all licensed concealed carriers will soon have the same rights! :cool:
 
From the NRA-ILA

Might be worth a read.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150101/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation


FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS

A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm must be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered.

Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest. All travelers in areas with restrictive laws would be well advised to have copies of any applicable firearm licenses or permits, as well as copies or printouts from the relevant jurisdictions’ official publications or websites documenting pertinent provisions of law (including FOPA itself) or reciprocity information. In the event of an unexpected or extended delay, travelers should make every effort not to handle any luggage containing firearms unnecessarily and to secure it in a location where they do not have ready access to it.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top