How do people turn these ak's full auto

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They turn them full auto very carefully

SimonVallore
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Join Date: 06-29-2005
Posts: 15 How do people turn these ak's full auto

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how are poeple turning ak's full autyo i heard they file down the sear pin is this true and is there a way they do it that it wont just empty the gun


There is no sear in a semi-auto AKM. Most wannabe 1 minute conversions like you are describing rely on simply disabling the disconnector and allowing the hammer to free fall behind the bolt carrier as it moves forward back into battery for as long as the trigger is pulled. One of three things will happen: 1. The gun will basicly slam fire and you will have pseudo-full auto fire 2. The hammer will not strike the firing pin hard enough to fire the primer since it is traveling at the same speed as, and basicly resting on, the bolt carrier and stops at almost the same instant the carrier does (especially with hard primers e.g. Yugo military ammo) If you have an AKM variant insert a loaded mag keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction, fully retract the charging handle and let it slam forward chambering a round. Now remove the magazine and extract the round and note the indent on the (hopefully) unfired primer. The ammunition is designed to withstand nominal impact of the firing pin as the bolt travels forward under normal operation. The impact from the falling hammer won't be much greater if it's allowed to simply follow the bolt carrier as just described. 3. The weapon will fire out of battery i.e. bolt not locked and will blow up making the operator wish he had never tried something so dangerously stupid. IMHO 2 is the most likely occurrence with 3 a close second and 1 a rather distant 3rd. The pressure of the 7.62X39 round is about 40,000 PSI. Not something to play around.

Most correct NFA conversions were done simply by replacing the semi-auto fire control parts with full auto parts along with the bolt carrier and drilling the receiver to accept the needed axis pin. Anytime the bolt or carrier are replaced the headspace MUST be checked. The full auto parts are and have been legal, plentiful and cheap. Far cheaper than machining up a custom solution. It's a very simple conversion since the weapons were originally designed as select fire in the first place and have just been given minor changes to limit them to semi only. I can't see any reason any responsible person would use anything but factory parts in the same configuration as originally intended.

In a nutshell it's now illegal for individuals to manufacture new machine guns although there is a legal precendent which if upheld by the supreme court may change this under some specfic circumstances. In a nutshell the 9th circuit has ruled in US v Robert Stewart Wilson Jr. that congress has no authority to regulate machineguns or manufacture thereof not substantially affecting interstate commerce. "substantially affecting interstate commerce" is the key so you will probably not be able to walk into a gun store and buy a new factory MP5 for the $900 or so retail price anytime soon but you may be able to once again manufacture your own machineguns legally provided the changes you make are substantial and you aren't using ready made parts substantially affecting interstate commerce. The ruling has been stayed pending appeal to the US supreme court. But for right now gun enthusiasts have a verdict decidedly in our favor. You can find the opinon at:

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/90B5FFB18A092A6F88256DDD000000FE/$file/0210318.pdf?openelement

There is some mention of gun kits etc in the case. That is NOT directly relevant to the machinegun issue.
 
joshua

AKs don't fire full auto from open bolt position.... correct me if I'm wrong. josh

Nope, AKs fire from the closed bolt position. No way the ATF would let them in the US if they fired from the open bolt.
 
Crosshair, it's 0240hrs here and the way I'm reading your post it's a closed bolt. Here is my question, did M. Kalishnikov originally design it to fire full auto in the open bolt position? I've always thought open bolt would not be conducive to accuracy, plus it lets in foreign debris into the action. josh
 
Joshua,

I don't know your background with weapons but from what I see in your post here are my answers to the questions...

The AK was designed as a selective fire assualt rifle, firing the 7.62x39 cartrige(AKA-Russian short), that fires from the closed bolt position.

Most weapons that fire from an open bolt postition are usually early machine pistols(mac's and tech 9 and such), but the true value of open bolt guns is not really reached until you get to true machine guns(ie belt feds, and disintergrating belt linked ammo), like 1919 and M2.

You are correct that the open bolt guns allow debris into the action, but they also cool faster and keep the ammo held in the Magazine or the bel, until the trigger is pulled. This helps prevent ,"cook offs", from sustained fire and heat build up in the chamber.

The true open bolt Machine guns, are less accurate than a closed bolt semi auto, but then again with,"cone of fire" and the,"beaten zone", being what they are, I doubt anybody misses the small amount of accuracy lost, and love the decrease in round,"cook-off" potential. As with everthing else, open vs. closed bolt is a trade off...Hope this helps :).
 
but the true value of open bolt guns is not really reached until you get to true machine guns(ie belt feds, and disintergrating belt linked ammo), like 1919 and M2.
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Not to diminish your point about open bolt heavy and GPMGs (because it is valid), but the M2 and the 1919 fire from a closed bolt.
 
Thanx for the clarification Shaggy, I stand corrected

I shoulda stuck with the ones I know are open bolt, like the M249 S.A.W. Is the M60 open or closed bolt?....Atleast I got the major points across correctly :o. Belt-feds really aren't my cup of tea, I am more of an AK/AR kinda guy :D...
 
Let me see, how did that block of instruction go...

"This is an M60. It is fully automatic 7.62 mm, air-cooled, belt-fed, gas-operated weapon that fires from the open bolt position. It has a maximum effective range of 1100 meters and and sustained rate of fire of 200 rounds per minute...." etc, etc.

Open bolt. I KNEW there was a reason I had to memorize that. :)
 
have ideas to on how to make weapons fully automatic but with the laws and hassle of not being able to use a weapon that is fullauto around people just gives me incinticve to practice pulling that trigger as fast as you can. P.S. you might want to buy a 22lr rifle and practice making it full auto. that is what I am going to do one of these days. after I know that I can do it I will just put it back to factory and just know that I can.
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Uh, yeah. Right.

Here's your sign.
 
This thread has no constructive purpose, and has trouble all over it with a capital T. Will someone PLEASE lock it?

So far, at least two people have actively discussed clear violations of Federal law. One has even declared intent.

I have no wish to be lumped into a Federal investigation. Granted, no laws broken yet--but some folks are pushing the envelope.
 
I was under the impression that is was legal to make your own MG as long as you registered it. Does that only apply if you build it from scratch? Or could you legally machine your own full auto conversion part for a gun, register it, and be legal?
 
I was under the impression that is was legal to make your own MG as long as you registered it. Does that only apply if you build it from scratch? Or could you legally machine your own full auto conversion part for a gun, register it, and be legal?
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Nope, FOPA'86 cutoff the registration of any MGs made after that date for civilian possession. IOW, under the NFA an individual can make their own machinegun if it is properly registered and tax paid, but the enactment of 18 USC 922(o) in 1986 cutoff the registration process for civilians (thus you can't make a new one because you can't register it).
 
I understand it now, thanks for clearing that up. However, if you buy a legal registered full auto conversion kit, then install it in your gun, aren't you making a machine gun? Or is it ok since the part is registered as a machine gun?
 
The conversion part is the machinegun. For example, I own several registered sears. Although its only a small part, it is registered as a machinegun and must be transfered as a machinegun. Legally it IS a machinegun. When I install one into the host gun, the sear remains the machinegun, but the host firearm temporarily becomes part of the same machinegun while the sear is installed. (its important to note that installation of a registered part should not involve any permanent physical changes to the host firearm that would permantly render it a machinegun after the registered part was removed)

Capice? :D
 
IOW, under the NFA an individual can make their own machinegun if it is properly registered and tax paid, but the enactment of 18 USC 922(o) in 1986 cutoff the registration process for civilians (thus you can't make a new one because you can't register it).
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To be technical, 922(o) makes civilian possession or transfer of ANY machine gun illegal, but exempts guns registered prior to 1986. It's a fine difference, but is one of the reasons why another 1968-style amnesty wouldn't help with respect to MGs. There have been bills proposed that would hold another amensty, but they also have to fiddle with 922(o) to make it work.
 
To be technical, 922(o) makes civilian possession or transfer of ANY machine gun illegal, but exempts guns registered prior to 1986. It's a fine difference, but is one of the reasons why another 1968-style amnesty wouldn't help with respect to MGs. There have been bills proposed that would hold another amensty, but they also have to fiddle with 922(o) to make it work.
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I'm well aware of the concurrent laws regarding NFA and the technicalities thereof - both under title 18 and title 26. Sometimes I find its better to keep it simple than further confuse the issue for the newbies. A fine difference to be sure, but without any significant effect for the purposes of the prior discussion herein.
 
Cortland-

Didn't mean that to come off snotty - I hope you didn't take it that way. Its just that many people here are newbies and have enough trouble wrapping their heads around the basics of NFA ownership without getting into hypertechnical legal points (this ain't subguns or sturm...). You are correct, and like the now defunct 1994 AWB, proper registration (or proof of lawful ownership prior to 9-13-94 for the AWB) is only a defense to prosecution for simple possession.
 
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