If this question has already been posted I apologize. But I'm wondering why some office jobs don't allow you to carry your sidearm with you while at work. I have a clean record and my CCW. But my place of work has a stern warning in the employee policy that says possessing a firearm or other weapon is strictly prohibited and is grounds for termination. How come they can do that?
How come and can they?
- Thread starter Evader1
- Start date
Because the same freedom which allows you to carry and own a firearm allows them to dictate what happens at their business. This is one reaosn I do not agree with boycotts of those premises who do not allow CCW on their site. They have just as much right to disallow weapons on their property as we do to own them.
spacemanspiff
New member
its a private property issue.
in my state, before i enter your home if i am carrying concealed i must first ask your permission to be armed on your property. if not, i am committing a crime.
this month my city is taking down all the signs from city-owned buildings that state 'no firearms allowed'. current law prohibits citys from placing further restrictions of firearms than are at the state level; and now the city is having to obey that law.
this means that we lowly citizens can waltz into city hall, or the police department, (or any property owned by the city) and lawfully carry concealed.
any privately owned building can post signs prohibiting weapons, but it amounts to nothing more than trespassing should someone persist.
in my state, before i enter your home if i am carrying concealed i must first ask your permission to be armed on your property. if not, i am committing a crime.
this month my city is taking down all the signs from city-owned buildings that state 'no firearms allowed'. current law prohibits citys from placing further restrictions of firearms than are at the state level; and now the city is having to obey that law.
this means that we lowly citizens can waltz into city hall, or the police department, (or any property owned by the city) and lawfully carry concealed.
any privately owned building can post signs prohibiting weapons, but it amounts to nothing more than trespassing should someone persist.
leadcounsel
Moderator
I would ABSOLUTELY boycott any business that actively dis-allowed legal CCWs on their property. I rarely see signs on private property stating "no firearms" or "no weapons." When I do see them I flatly ignore them if I MUST go into the business. I'm carrying concealed and they'll never know unless I'm called upon to defend myself or someone else. In that case, I'll face the legal ramifications and the owner may actually appreciate that someone armed was on his property.
Spiffy: Can you cite your Alaska statute that requires you to tell other property owners?
Spiffy: Can you cite your Alaska statute that requires you to tell other property owners?
Well there's nothing on the walls that states "No firearms" but it's written very simply in the policy. Was just wondering how they could go around the 2nd Amend. Then again Shaggy said it right. "Their property, their rules." Lets just hope there's never a problem or I gotta start throwing pens and erasers!
leadcounsel
Moderator
I think you'll find that most employers don't allow firearms on their private property. It's up to you to decide to ignore the rules or follow the rules.
What are your priorities?
What are your priorities?
leadcounsel
Moderator
Spiffy:
I read the statute and must say that is a weird requirement. I don't think I like it very much. Do you comply?
I read the statute and must say that is a weird requirement. I don't think I like it very much. Do you comply?
leadcounsel
Moderator
The thrust of the difference is private property vs public property. Your constitutional protections protect you from Gov't action, not private citizen action.
Hence, while you're protected from gov't prosecution on public or private land, you don't have free speech on private property by the property owner. If you say something offensive declaring the protection of free speech, while the government can't prosecute you, your company can fire you lawfully and ask you to leave.
Same is true at a private school, but not at a public school.
Thus, your private company can ask that you don't eat pizza, don't say the color 'blue,' and don't worship Budda on company time/property and can fire you for doing so, particularly in "at will" employment states.
Hence, while you're protected from gov't prosecution on public or private land, you don't have free speech on private property by the property owner. If you say something offensive declaring the protection of free speech, while the government can't prosecute you, your company can fire you lawfully and ask you to leave.
Same is true at a private school, but not at a public school.
Thus, your private company can ask that you don't eat pizza, don't say the color 'blue,' and don't worship Budda on company time/property and can fire you for doing so, particularly in "at will" employment states.
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spacemanspiff
New member
yes i do comply. but then again, i dont do a lot of socializing.
The reason for boycott is that they are denying your CONSTITUTIONAL right to protect your life, liberty and happiness.
They are denying your right to work, in a free environment, to support your life, liberty and happiness.
They are blackmailing you with your livelihood.
And, they have a rule which is UNENFORCEABLE and you damned well don't have to shoot off your mouth and tell them you are carrying!!
I carried for many years in Oakland, Kalifornica and no one knew it. Even my wife didn't know. No one had a NEED TO KNOW and I saw no reason to change that.
If you kill an armed assailant in the defense of your life, liberty and happiness or in defense of some one else's... Your job security will have a lot less influence over your mind as well as your future.
I tend to believe this rule is a scarecrow...
They are just covering their butts against a lawsuit in case you go ballistic.
They are denying your right to work, in a free environment, to support your life, liberty and happiness.
They are blackmailing you with your livelihood.
And, they have a rule which is UNENFORCEABLE and you damned well don't have to shoot off your mouth and tell them you are carrying!!
I carried for many years in Oakland, Kalifornica and no one knew it. Even my wife didn't know. No one had a NEED TO KNOW and I saw no reason to change that.
If you kill an armed assailant in the defense of your life, liberty and happiness or in defense of some one else's... Your job security will have a lot less influence over your mind as well as your future.
I tend to believe this rule is a scarecrow...
They are just covering their butts against a lawsuit in case you go ballistic.
Hogwash.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't like the fact that employers do this, but it IS their right, and when you're at work, you're most likely on their property. The employer is not denying your right to do anything - you have no Constitutional rights enforceable against a private party. Constitutional rights are only limits against actions of the government.
And make no mistake, they are not denying you the right to work or "blackmailing" you with your livelihood. But if you want to continue to work for them you must voluntarily agree not to carry a gun on their property. If you don't like the policy you are free to find work elsewhere or start your own company. An employer doesn't owe you a job. You are not entitled to a job. You voluntarily agree to do a certain job under certain conditions, for a certain amount of consideration. One of those conditions can be "no guns on company property".
Of course, if you are caught, there's not much more they can do other than fire you (and since it would be for cause, you might not be able to get unemployment benefits).
spacemanspiff
New member
you dont HAVE to work for an employer who is bigoted to guns.
progunner1957
Moderator
The Constitution/Bill of Rights is meaningless at work
There you have it, folks - when you are at work, you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
On the job, the Constitution is absolutely meaningless. You have no right to due process, no right to not have your property confiscated, no right to refuse to be strip/body cavity searched, no right to remain silent, no right to legal counsel, no right to refuse detention against your will, if you want to keep your job.
When you say "Their property their rules," that is exactly what you are saying - and it is... "angus feces."
The Constitution - and the Bill of Rights - is the ultimate law of the land, PERIOD. There are no "Constitution/Bill of Rights free zones," no waviers for tyranny, no exceptions. At least, that was the intent of those who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Today in Socialist America, the Sheeple have meekly submitted to being stripped of their rights at the court house, at the post office, at work, at school, at the grocery, at the freaking mall. As a result,there are damn few places in Socialist America where you can exercise your rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.
The more arbitrary and illegitimate power that the Sheeple allow employers assume, the more they will assume.
Think about it.
There you have it, folks - when you are at work, you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
On the job, the Constitution is absolutely meaningless. You have no right to due process, no right to not have your property confiscated, no right to refuse to be strip/body cavity searched, no right to remain silent, no right to legal counsel, no right to refuse detention against your will, if you want to keep your job.
When you say "Their property their rules," that is exactly what you are saying - and it is... "angus feces."
The Constitution - and the Bill of Rights - is the ultimate law of the land, PERIOD. There are no "Constitution/Bill of Rights free zones," no waviers for tyranny, no exceptions. At least, that was the intent of those who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Today in Socialist America, the Sheeple have meekly submitted to being stripped of their rights at the court house, at the post office, at work, at school, at the grocery, at the freaking mall. As a result,there are damn few places in Socialist America where you can exercise your rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.
The more arbitrary and illegitimate power that the Sheeple allow employers assume, the more they will assume.
Think about it.
Thats right. Most of what you posted there is a crime under state and possibly federal law and would also be tortious conduct under which you could seek redress in a civil court. The Constitution only limits the power of government (not private parties) and protects you against actions of the government (not private parties).
I disagree. The Constitution has been found over and over agin to apply to government entities, and for that matter, FEDERAL Government entities. The Constitution does not apply to those instances where you are on private property, being compensated by the owner or his subsidiary for work performed. Like it or not, this is what is accepted as fact, and has been for a long, long time.
Persoanlly, I am glad thats the way it is. It is no more right to tell a business owner that he MUST allow guns on his property than it is to tell you you cannot own a gun. Its the same thing, absolutely no difference.
You people crack me up. The ones who think the government should mandate that all businesses and property owners allow them to carry their guns whenver they choose are the very same who repeat over and over that the Governement should back away from telling the private citizen what to do. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Seems to me it boils down to an old saying "I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will fight to death to give you the freedom to say it". Just because you dont agree with a way of thinking doesnt make it wrong.
Persoanlly, I am glad thats the way it is. It is no more right to tell a business owner that he MUST allow guns on his property than it is to tell you you cannot own a gun. Its the same thing, absolutely no difference.
You people crack me up. The ones who think the government should mandate that all businesses and property owners allow them to carry their guns whenver they choose are the very same who repeat over and over that the Governement should back away from telling the private citizen what to do. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Seems to me it boils down to an old saying "I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will fight to death to give you the freedom to say it". Just because you dont agree with a way of thinking doesnt make it wrong.