How can people be so blind..

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This brings up one of my pet peeves. And that's the idea of "being liked."

As a former manager, I don't know how many times my superiors asked about someone we were about to hire and asked the same stupid question, "Is he a 'good fit' for our company?"

My answer was pretty much always the same, "I don't care if he's Mussolini's grandson, he has the skills I need."

Just because you work together doesn't mean you have to like each other.

And so it is with tact and diplomacy. I don't care if every Islamic cleric puts a death warrant out on every Harley owner, as long as the trains run on time and the oil flows.

Consider our condition here. For the most part, we are conservative gun owners. My guess is that some of us are Democrats that like firearms, or sporting firearms. We are a pretty homogeneous group.

And even we disagree on some topics.

So what are the odds that two societies, divided by geography, culture, religion, history, social mores and industrial sophistication are going to disagree? My guess is that they are going to be on opposite sides of any debate most of the time.

Given that, learn to live with it and figure out new ways to succeed at what we need.
 
Why does the membership of this forum tolerate intolerance? Some of the statements in this thread about Islam are not only inflammatory but are completely false.

This board and its moderators would not tolerate these kinds of statements about Christianity? Why is it allowed when the subject is Islam or Judaism?

Islam is a part of the Abrahamic faith. They are people of the book, The old Testament, and have co-existed with other religions for centuries. There are radical Muslims just like there are radical __________ fill in the blank.

This does not condemn the entire religion and those who practice it. The intolerance that has been demonstrated in this thread should be a clear signal, for all who seek understanding and freedom in this complex world, that some of us are heading in the wrong direction.
 
rellascout said:
Why does the membership of this forum tolerate intolerance?
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Ideally, a forum should be an exchange of ideas, and where people can learn new things and perceptions. If done politely and respectfully, any topic can be discussed.

I got flamed one time in a gun forum for saying that we ought to give Sarah Brady a free membership and have her openly discuss her perspective. I told my fellow members that if they could hold their tongues we would all learn something--on both sides of the fence.

You can guess how that went.

I think since I've been here people might think diffferently about knives and that industry. That's what I bring. We've had threads on dog owners. We probably have more gay TFL members than you'd think--each afraid to openly discuss issues from their perspective.

It ain't the issues, it's us.
 
Ideally, a forum should be an exchange of ideas, and where people can learn new things and perceptions. If done politely and respectfully, any topic can be discussed.

I got flamed one time in a gun forum for saying that we ought to give Sarah Brady a free membership and have her openly discuss her perspective. I told my fellow members that if they could hold their tongues we would all learn something--on both sides of the fence.

You can guess how that went.

I think since I've been here people might think diffferently about knives and that industry. That's what I bring. We've had threads on dog owners. We probably have more gay TFL members than you'd think--each afraid to openly discuss issues from their perspective.

It ain't the issues, it's us.
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Well stated!!!
 
IIRC, I think the moderators would permit the same inflamatory things to be said about any religion so long as the rules were followed and that makes TFL the only place I'll regularly visit. If somebody thinks Christians are bloodthirsty monotheists who demand conversion or death by torture and they back that up with facts (they'd probably use the inquisition as exhibit A), then another will come on and point out that that was about 400 years ago, and lately Christian's have been a fairly peaceful bunch since the reformation.

I don't know about you, but I actually do moderate my opinions some after reading the other side well-defended, and I learned more here than I learned in college and not just on guns. I appreciate the discussions here as long as they don't become ad-hominim attacks. I like that folks can argue a point here, support a candidate here, and even be a blatant liberal here and so long as they obey the rules that Rich and the moderators came up with, it is OK.
 
Originally Posted by Antipitas
We don't discuss race, religion or sexual preference. As many have observed, these subjects do nothing but divide us as a community. Discussion and debate should be on the ideas presented, not the personalities that presented the idea. That's the ideal. Think Twice, post once.

For those of you that see only black and white, we suggest you leave this forum altogether. Life is not a two-toned creature, neither are our rights.
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Your statement seem counter to this post by Antipitas? Flaming about Islam serves no purpose.
 
kjm said:
inflamatory things...so long as the rules were followed...TFL the only place I'll regularly visit
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TFL is becoming my home forum. You want to protect that.

I would question the use of your word inflamatory. I think intelligent discussions touch more on beliefs that are passionate. And remember, in living and learning, we evolve. I am not the man I was thirty years ago.

My views on faith have changed. I was born catholic, but studied and was baptized as SDA. As a side issue, my concepts of race dramatically changed. Fully 1/3 of that congregation was black--and they took my wife and I into their care and loved us to death.

If I had a scanner, I would show you pictures of 'the boy.'

If making a difference is our goal, as it should be, then serious discussions with bigots and haters should have some importance. If we turned a guy and showed him our world, I think that would be a win with deeper consequences.
 
I work with a Muslim (a pretty reasonable guy BTW) who says the MAIN reason Muslims dislike the US is what they see as our unconditional support for Israel. He says, rightly or wrongly, that’s the main issue and any other issue is secondary or just an excuse. But he also says the despots in the region like to have a common enemy to blame for the their own and the world’s ills so the populace can direct their anger externally instead of internally.
 
But he also says the despots in the region like to have a common enemy to blame for the their own and the world’s ills so the populace can direct their anger externally instead of internally.
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Sound eerily familiar. Unfortunately that is a trait of most cultures.

Rellascout
 
raccol said:
I work with a Muslim (a pretty reasonable guy BTW)
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This is a very important concept.

As you are getting to know him and his view, he is getting to know you. I'm sure he will come to realize that most folks here have the same agendas for their families, and probably the same dreams for the future.

It's hard to hate a guy once you've met him and talked it out.
 
Why does the membership of this forum tolerate intolerance? Some of the statements in this thread about Islam are not only inflammatory but are completely false.

This board and its moderators would not tolerate these kinds of statements about Christianity? Why is it allowed when the subject is Islam or Judaism?
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Actually, all it would take is a couple PMs and they probably wouldn't tolerate some of the statements made in here about Islam. Which is why generally any thread that winds up focused too much on religion (any...I've seen threads regarding both Christianity and Judaism locked) or the other topics mentioned in the rules (like sexual preference) will end up locked.

Just because you see a particularly derogatory remark made here without a response from the mods don't assume they're cool with it...just assume they're not omnipotent. Generally if it's as bad as you're letting on (and a couple in here have been) it'll get noticed eventually...if it's particularly bad (I don't know that any here really qualify...the bar is higher) feel free to use the report button.

Also note that while a few topics are pretty much forbidden in the rules, I've seen many a thread dealing with those topics remain open for quite a while, provided the participants are mature and reasonable about it.

Anyway, carry on gentlemen.
 
JuanCarlos,

I know what you are saying. I guess what I am asking is why as intelligent adults we cannot police ourselves. 99% of the time I am wrong I know it. I know when I have crossed the line.

People need to look at what they are saying and check themselves. Flaming an entire religion is not called for in an adult discussion, which is what these are supposed to be.

Back on topic. Our actions toward the middle east and our preferential treatment of Israel are huge contributors to our current situation. Many of the problems we are facing in the world today are a direct result of the our foreign policy over the last 25 years.
 
"Many of the problems we are facing in the world today are a direct result of the our foreign policy over the last 25 years."

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! ;)
 
Many of the problems we are facing in the world today are a direct result of the our foreign policy over the last 25 years.
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The are plenty of other foreign policies that contributed to the current mess and it goes back a lot further than 25 years.
 
I agree but when you look at the last 25 we have escalated the progression to where we are right now.

Yes the policies and decisions of the past, beyond the last 25, still have lasting effects but the last 25 have really pushed us to the brink. I would take it one step further. It is our inability to learn from our deeper past that puts us where we are today.

Make the same mistakes we have made in the past.
 
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A lot of it started as far back as 1492 when Spain kicked the Moors out, uprooting them from their homes that they had for at least 700 years. Or it could go back even farther than that...
 
You know what rella, I read Bruxley's post too, and I can't see anything where he calls you names. Get some thicker skin. You don't have the right not to be offended.
 
A lot of it started as far back as 1492 when Spain kicked the Moors out, uprooting them from their homes that they had for at least 700 years. Or it could go back even farther than that...
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A lot of it started when the first hominid realized it could eat another hominid's lunch if it first caved in that other hominid's head with a rock. Anyone who wants to trace evil back to its original roots has a long job ahead of him.

"It's the fault of the Dems/Repubs ... no wait, the Whigs/Tories, ... no wait, the Crusaders ... no wait, the Jews ... no wait, the Spartans ... no wait, the Egyptians who held the Hebrews in hateful bondage ... no wait ...."

It's popular now to trace all evils back to the U.S., but whatever fault we may bear -- and I believe we do bear some -- we don't bear it all. It's not as if every act of ours was totally evil, and every act of every other nation on this planet was as pure and clean as Ivory soap. There are a lot of dirty hands out there. All nations -- past, present, and future -- have them.

If someone is going to be fair when slinging dirt, they'll need to sling some at other nations besides the U.S.
Islamic fascists attack anyone that disagrees with them because they lack the ability to deal with their grievances in a civilized way. The attack in the Philippines, northern Africa, former Soviet block nations, Spain, Britain, hell they BURNED France, how in the world do you equate all that with US forgien policy?
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Hey, Bruxley, you missed the murdered Hindus in Kashmir, and the murdered Hindus before that (such as when Pakistan and India became sovereign countries), or the destruction of the Buddhist temples in Afghanistan. I have yet to find the U.S. connection in all that, and no one has yet pointed it out, but I'm sure we are responsible somehow.

For all I know, we probably antagonized the Barbary Sultans in 1796, leading to these more recent problems in India, Kashmir, and Afghanistan. :rolleyes:
 
Hey, Bruxley, you missed the murdered Hindus in Kashmir, and the murdered Hindus before that (such as when Pakistan and India became sovereign countries), or the destruction of the Buddhist temples in Afghanistan. I have yet to find the U.S. connection in all that, and no one has yet pointed it out, but I'm sure we are responsible somehow.

For all I know, we probably antagonized the Barbary Sultans in 1796, leading to these more recent problems in India, Kashmir, and Afghanistan. :rolleyes:
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It's also at least possible that those suggesting that perhaps US foreign policy has played some part in fostering the anti-American sentiment that leads to attacks were only referring to attacks on America and American interests. Just a thought.
 
I can understand Muslims not wanting us over there, however, if it wasn't for Western technology their oil would still be in the ground.

The Muslims simply didn't have the technology to drill for oil and "harvest" it.

And if it wasn't for oil, who would really care about radical Muslims?
 
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