How can a simple hug cause a weapon to discharge?

L

Luger_carbine

New member
I can't see how hugging someone can make a weapon discharge. I mean - if a weapon were that sensiive to pressure like that, wouldn't it also go off if you got into a car?

And the story says the bullet struck the hugger in the chest.

The only way I can see that happening is if the weapon were in a cross draw shoulder rig?

The story doesn't make sense, but I'm glad it wasn't your average CWP holder - it would have been more grist for the anti-CCW mill.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-hug-triggers-officers-gun-kills-woman-16737471

The story does not make sense to me.
 
Story doesn't make sense. Maybe if they clarified what kind of gun and how it was staged. All of it would be a guess of course. But I think you're right on it being a shoulder rig.
 
I would LOVE more details.

First of all, any decent holster should cover the trigger and that would make this totally impossible. I'm wondering if this holster had been modified or was some sort of makeshift design.

Second, a normal hugging motion shouldn't be sufficient to operate the controls on a pistol that is otherwise safe, even if the gun were cocked, off-safe and the trigger exposed. Guns just don't go off from being squeezed--you have to get something inside the trigger guard and on the trigger.

http://www.freep.com/article/201207...-dies-after-his-gun-goes-off?odyssey=nav|head

Ok, this article clarifies things a bit--it states that the gun went off when "the other woman came up behind him and tugged at his waist." So maybe "hug" isn't the right word at all.

This article also states that the gun was a "department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer’s waistband ".

The story seems to make it plain that both the off-duty officer and the victim were standing. I have to say I'm pretty skeptical that a gun in a holster worn inside a waistband can go off and shoot a person nearby in the chest.

It's starting to sound like the victim may have done enough "tugging at his waist" to actually get the handgun drawn or at least partially drawn. If that weren't true, it would be pointed downward--certainly not at an angle that would allow it to hit her in the chest. At any rate, it's a fairly safe bet that the story didn't happen exactly like the first article suggests it did.

It's sounding less and less like a simple hug leading to a tragedy and more and more like horseplay involving a firearm.
 
I read a thread (completely believable) about a guy whose semi-auto discharged and creased his thigh when he slid into his vehicle's seat. The cause was a poorly maintained or fitted holster. It was a leather holster, which had apparently softened, picked up a fold that wedged into the trigger guard did what only a trigger finger is SUPPOSED to do.

edit: (thanks, JohnKSa, post #5) This shows me that a holstered weapon can be made to discharge if a number of other things have been done wrong. It says nothing about the direction of discharge, and precious little about this particular event. I mention it just as an example of how a discharge could happen through no defect of the gun itself.

I would look long and hard at the officer's carry gear, then at the method of carry and the maintenance of the gun, too. Do all witness statements support the news report?

Does anyone have any idea what kind of gun it was or if there is any suspicion of foul play/ulterior motives?

Very sad about the woman and her loved ones. Sad about the officer, too. He has got to be feeling very badly.

There is no good end to this story. The best that can be hoped for is to figure out what happened with a mind to prevent future similar occurrences.

Lost Sheep
 
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It was a leather holster, which had apparently softened, picked up a fold that wedged into the trigger guard did what only a trigger finger is SUPPOSED to do.
Click to expand...
I can see that as a possibility for explaining how the gun went off. I'm still very skeptical about the idea that a gun in the IWB holster of a standing person could go off and injure the person standing next to him in the chest.
 
Powder burns and hole in officer's clothing would certainly indicate the angle the gun was pointed. Figuring how it got that way is another matter I'm thinking. Inside the waist band ought leave marks on discharge in some manner. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I sometimes carry a horizontal shoulder holster.
 
there had to be some pressure going on for it to turn and shoot her at that angle....add that to the fact that most disasters have chain of events(plane crashes as example) where every event must happen to add up to the eventual disaster...he might have jerked a little if she hugged him from behind even if subtly

triiping over words, but basically both of those issues together could have equaled tragedy
 
JDLR

Just Doen't Look Right.

If, and I do say 'if', some innocent was killed by an off-duty LEO futzing around with his weapon system, at a party no less...oh yea, for sure...had to be an accident.

We had a similar case. An on duty LEO, foot chase, catches BG, 1911A1 accidently discharges while the muzzle was pressed against the back of BG's head. The State's firearms exaimer testified in open Court and in front of God and everybody, that above mentioned 1911A1 was in normal operating condition. The Department's response went something like... 'Well, ah , you see if...ah, (BG was a BG, but was not a fleeing felon at the time of the shooting) ah, ah, that couldn't..couldn't, I mean...holsters! Why yes. Holsters. And, and....excuse excuse excuse...here, have some money'.

Anbody fired? No. Suspensions? No. The department wasn't allowed to carry or even mention the nasty word, dare I say, Nine-Teen-11-Ay-1, anymore.
 
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Totally spitballing here: hug--> caressing roaming hands along waste. "ooh, whats that?" jerk response while finger caught in trigger?
 
Absolutely impossible--there has to be more to it that what is being reported--otherwise our streets would be littered with accidentally shot people.
 
Very sad. Im curious as to his carry piece. And as you all said his shoulder rig.
Correction it was a S&W in .40. Still dont know the exact model though.
 
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Master Blaster 2.

It is true. I live in the Big City. I currently know at least a dozen people who carry street gunshot wounds. And they arn't LEOs or farmers or Veterans or even shooters.

I saw it for the first time in the Service. Plenty of those 17-18-early 20 year-old inner city recruits arrivied at Boot Camp gun & knife wounds equipped!

''Lets see here...point to the gunshot wounds you had before you enlisted"
 
Here is what I think happened... Woman comes up behind officers and hugs him around the waist. While doing doing so, her hand runs over the gun. "what's this?" she says and pulls the gun from the holster...

The gun had to come out of the holster for the victim to be shot. The officer and the hugging woman are leaving something out of their story. However, it was a party and that means witnesses will probably around. I'm really interested to find out the real story.
 
Same way they go off when cleaning or just sitting there. Guns are dangerous and unpredictable right? Wait no that's people.
 
Hold on a minute.

This wouldn't be the same LEO who had a ND with a 40 caliber Glock while demonstrating safe gun handling practices in front of all those 3rd graders?
 
Yep. Need more info. If I were a betting man though, the facts as stated in all the articles I've read are wrong. It was the cop's party. He was married. A young, single woman seemed to be flirting with him, and grabbed him from behind. I'm not saying it was an intentional shooting, but I would buy her grabbing at the gun from behind.
 
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You're about as suspicious natured as me, Pilot.
Cop dancing with wife.
Massage therapist gives him a hug in motion.
Wife says "Leggo my man, ho"
BANG!

Yup, a regrettable accident.
 
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