A finer definition is that a cartridge is obsolescent when no production firearms are chambered in it and obsolete when no production ammo is produced in it.
So the 250 Savage is obsolescent, while the 30 Remington is obsolete.
How are cartridges defined as obsolete?
- Thread starter Shadow9mm
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A finer definition is that a cartridge is obsolescent when no production firearms are chambered in it and obsolete when no production ammo is produced in it.
So the 250 Savage is obsolescent, while the 30 Remington is obsolete.
mikejonestkd
New member
as someone that loads for both of these cartridges, I completely agree!
Well, it's still listed in Winchester's catalog, but during ammo shortages cartridges with marginal popularity get pushed to the end of the line. Normally, "seasonal" cartridge runs get made when the year's quota of 223 / 9mm / 308 etc, get filled. The problem when demand is high is that they can sell every one of those cartridges they can make right off the assembly line, so there's not much incentive to stop the line, spend time (=$) to retool for 264 WM / 32-20 / 348 Win ammo.
Jim Watson
New member
Doesn't seem to keep them from producing the 7.2mm Magnumb they would rather you bought than .280 Rem.
You probably won't find .264 Mag every time you want to buy a box.
You might already know this, but if you study the cartridge case drawings the .264 and the 7mm Rem Mag are practically identical. Run 7 mm Rem brass through your .264 sizer .It amounts to sizing the neck down .016.
There is only one problem. You might "train yourself" that a cartridge with a 7 mm Rem headstamp is OK to shoot in your .264. Murphy's law says "If it CAN go wrong,it WILL go wrong. Firing a 7mm Rem in a ,264 could hurt you bad.
I myself....May not be good enough at housekeeping and being organized to trust I could never find a way to make that mistake. I DO have a 7mm Rem in the safe.
But if I needed ammo to go hunting,I could make a batch.
one way to generally avoid getting the wrong ammo in the wrong gun is to not have any. having been mightily impressed as a youth by the 12/20 burst, I don't own a single 20ga though I have several 12s. Never found that a handicap.
If you got things where the wrong ammo could get in the wrong gun, don't be sloppy.
Just like ONLY ONE powder on the loading bench at a time!!!
Same applies to the guns and ammo. Do your due diligence, take the proper care, it may be a pain but its a LOT cheaper than gunsmith and medical bills!!
And, you know, there are some things that just cannot be replaced...
your call...
If you got things where the wrong ammo could get in the wrong gun, don't be sloppy.
Just like ONLY ONE powder on the loading bench at a time!!!
Same applies to the guns and ammo. Do your due diligence, take the proper care, it may be a pain but its a LOT cheaper than gunsmith and medical bills!!
And, you know, there are some things that just cannot be replaced...
your call...
reynolds357
New member
Will a 7 Rem mag chamber in a 264? Never tried it, but don't see how it could.
This is an interesting discussion topic with lots of great comments. I want to address the absolute beginning of it:
On here, it has spawned an interesting conversation. But it seems to me that the dolt who dropped the comment has precious little to offer in a productive conversation.
Can we all agree that whoever dropped this opinion might be genuine waste of time? Words have tremendous value, as do conversations, but for anyone who knows even just a little bit about our sport/lifestyle, this is a completely ludicrous statement and as succinctly mentioned above, basically amounts to little more than a slur.
On here, it has spawned an interesting conversation. But it seems to me that the dolt who dropped the comment has precious little to offer in a productive conversation.
I've never understood why, but there are people who treat guns and cartridges like some people treat fashion trends and styles.
Last year's stuff is old, and obsolete, BECAUSE it is last year's stuff.
The time frame for firearms is rarely just a year, but the idea is the same, if its old, it must be outdated and obsolete, regardless of whether it works or not.
I wear clothes, but I don't do "fashion". I don't do it with guns and ammo, either...
guess I'm a bit odd, that way....
Last year's stuff is old, and obsolete, BECAUSE it is last year's stuff.
The time frame for firearms is rarely just a year, but the idea is the same, if its old, it must be outdated and obsolete, regardless of whether it works or not.
I wear clothes, but I don't do "fashion". I don't do it with guns and ammo, either...
guess I'm a bit odd, that way....
I've never understood why, but there are people who treat guns and cartridges like some people treat fashion trends and styles.
The time frame for firearms is rarely just a year, but the idea is the same, if its old, it must be outdated and obsolete, regardless of whether it works or not.
I wear clothes, but I don't do "fashion". I don't do it with guns and ammo, either...
guess I'm a bit odd, that way....
Some personalities are easily morphed by external inputs. That can be friends, gun counter folks, trainers, and company advertisers. Some are not.
I'm wearing the same kind of shoes I have for a decade, heck, my 2 pair of boots are 34 and 36 years old, I just get them re-soled.
I'm not immune from an interest perspective, but few of the new whiz-bangs interest me.
Last year's stuff may be out of fashion, but it's almost certainly not obsolete. There may have been some weird situations where a cartridge (e.g. 9mm Federal Revolver) became obsolete almost immediately upon introduction, but for the most part when someone says that last year's stuff is obsolete they are simply misusing the word 'obsolete'.
When it comes to guns and ammo, I agree completely. On the other hand, if you're talking designer dresses for divas, they will argue the other way...
If I remember right, what caused the 9mm Federal to be pulled off the market really fast was someone figured out they would fit in .38S&W chambers and were WAAAY to high pressure for that....
Seems to me to be kind of thing somebody at Federal should have realized BEFORE production began. Bet who ever wound up being held responsible didn't get a Christmas bonus....unless they got one from their next employer...
That and the fact that the same revolver was already offered in 357 Mag. A pointless and dangerous cartridge.
I keep hearing about how people want 9mm DA revolvers, but apparently enough people don't want them to keep them in production. All the major makers who have offered 9mm DA revolvers have dropped them after a relatively short amount of time.
Does that make the 9mm obsolete? Not hardly. Just means the market doesn't really want that particular product combination (9mm DA revolver) enough for the gun makers to keep making them.
The 9mm Federal was supposed to help remedy that issue, as not needing clips would make the gun more popular, but well....oops!!
Things just didn't work out that way.
Does that make the 9mm obsolete? Not hardly. Just means the market doesn't really want that particular product combination (9mm DA revolver) enough for the gun makers to keep making them.
The 9mm Federal was supposed to help remedy that issue, as not needing clips would make the gun more popular, but well....oops!!
Things just didn't work out that way. reynolds357
New member
I don't really know about the double action revolver thing. I always wanted a S&W, but they were always out of stock no back order. Maybe if they made enough to sell, they would sell them.I keep hearing about how people want 9mm DA revolvers, but apparently enough people don't want them to keep them in production. All the major makers who have offered 9mm DA revolvers have dropped them after a relatively short amount of time.
Does that make the 9mm obsolete? Not hardly. Just means the market doesn't really want that particular product combination (9mm DA revolver) enough for the gun makers to keep making them.
The 9mm Federal was supposed to help remedy that issue, as not needing clips would make the gun more popular, but well....oops!!
Generally what this means is "we sold all we had, and aren't planning on making any more, so don't bother to backorder".
Contrary to what the popular press would have you believe, gun companies aren't made of money, and don't make huge profits on individual items. When the press cites millions of $ in profits, they're looking at TOTAL profit from the entire business. What isn't well understood is that each model has to be sufficiently profitable to pay for itself in continued production AND then have at least a little left over for the shareholders.
9mm DA revolvers are a bit of a "difficult sell" in the general market. Lots of people say they'll want one, fewer actually buy. There are many issues involved, some of which are the actual guns, themselves.
There are no DA revolvers "scaled" for the 9mm Luger round. There has never been sufficient demand for any maker to create one. (new frame sizes are expensive). So, what we get (when we do get one) is a .38/.357 size frame, which has "wasted space" in 9mm Luger.
Since you're NOT getting any smaller a gun, many people will opt for the larger (and more powerful and useful) .357, and which works without needing clips.
The history of 9mm DA revolvers has always been, that they sell a bunch when they are brand new and a novelty, and then interest goes pffft, and not enough people buy them to justify continued production. THis has happened, more than once.
DO note that Ruger's convertable Blackhawk .357 with its spare 9mm cylinder has been in constant production since they began offering it, while several DA 9mm revolvers have tried, and failed to endure.
A rimmed 9mm round for revolvers would seem to make sense, but, as Federal discovered (too late) if it fits into an old .38S&W, its not going to be safe, and will be taken off the market.
The idea of being able to use the same gun firing rimless rounds with clips or rimmed rounds without clips is appealing, however, in 9mm the physical size is close enough to fit into some guns made for much lower pressure rounds and that would be dangerous. So due to safety considerations, the 9mm Federal is "obsolete" and no longer made.