Houston I think we have a problem

^^
New rifle. One of the lands was completely gouged away for a substantial distance from the muzzle. As I look at the latest pics, all three I see are damaged. Might have missed that in the first round. But there should be a crisp (but not sharp) transition from the lands to the crown. That sure isn't the case, here.

How would you comport that could happen between being shipped from the factory, and his taking possession?

OP:

Groups ranging from half an inch, to one and a half- is not accuracy.

It is inconsistency- which equals inaccuracy. Whether that's shooter error, ammunition, the barrel, the stock fit- or any combination of the above is impossible to say at this point. But forget three shot groups even exist (five minimum)- and there needs to be consistency for a rifle to be considered "accurate". Now, if you said it consistently put five shots into 3/4" all day long I'd say you'd be a fool to mess with it...but that's not the case here.

You may be out of luck with Rem from other stories I've heard. If so, suggest you rule out all the other potential sources of the inconsistency- especially ammo. You need good stuff if shooting factory, like FGMM. If it's still not shooting consistently, a local smith could cut an inconsequential amount off the muzzle end and re-crown for a small amount of dough.

JMO, YMMV.
 
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I will start by saying you should still ask for more from Remington. But I disagree with others that the original damage was somehow done after it left the factory. It looks like a defect in the metal. Probably a small area of contamination in the metal that weakened the surface. It may have left the factory looking pristine. The first several bullets could have torn the weakened metal out a few bits at a time. If that defect had been deeper in the metal it never would have shown up. If you like how it shoots now, push for a cut and crown. Take a half inch off and it may shoot even better. How does the rest of the bore look now?
 
In my work I deal with metallurgy and that thought had crossed my mind. From what I can tell with my endo scope the rest of the barrel looks good. I think I'm going to take it to a local Gunsmith and get it cut and recrowned.
 
That's what I would do. No more headache with Remlington.

Machine marks are regular and crisp most of the time, gouges from tools are sharp. That metal was torn out. Let us know how it improves with a trim and crown.
 
I would ask the same questions that I posted in my post on the first page.

How did it leave the factory a SECOND time with the same problem? Who's doing their QC checks? -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- is wrong with Remington?

These are just a couple of questions that you should have for them, plus a bunch on how they plan on making it right! Why do you have to accept poor quality for your money? You paid for a rifle that should've been 100% from them, sent it back and get it back in almost the same condition.

Remington is being lazy and their continued lack of QC, customer service, whatever you want to call it is going to ruin them. Don't stop bothering them, if you do they'll just move along like nothing ever happened. Go on their website and post a negative review if you can. Then keep posting this on every gun website you can.

Big companies don't like negative attention, especially when it effects their bottom line.
 
I did send Remington a email and told them how disappointed I am in there attempt at a repair. I will let you know what they say.
 
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It sucks that you have to do that. Usually if something goes wrong for me I contact their website people, then try phone, and if that doesn't work everyone now has a facebook account so it's best to hit them up there.

Most good companies will fix their problems. Only failure using crossbow products. Rage Broadheads basically told me to go .... myself. I copied the email and sent it to Barnett/Plano the company that makes the crossbow and they sent me a free pack of broadheads. Barnett gets my vote on good service.

I also ride motorcycles and most companies if you're in an accident will replace your gear just to get actual product damage instead of simulated damage.

I had a helmet that took damage when an unknown item bounced out of the back of a truck and smashed the shield. I took pictures of the helmet and damage for them and although it was out of warranty I sent them the info about how I like their product and that it saved my wifes face. The helmet was out of warranty but they did send me a couple tshirts and other swag. So KBC helmets has my vote.

Long story short is if you run into bad and the company fights your on fixing it tell others. If a company does a good job for you tell even more people.
 
I understand that you don't like the cosmetics of it.
But it shoots sub-moa, which a lot of pretty, shiney barrels can't do.

That gun is a shooter and a keeper. Don't worry about the appearance, be happy with the accuracy. JMHO, and good luck!
 
Generally,a manufacturer with a reputation to protect is well advised to invest in "customer satisfaction"
If they consider the invest a lot of marketing and advertising dollars to gain customers,investing a little in keeping them helps.
Especially with venues like this forum.
I don't know how that happened.I can't imagine a manufacturing process that would do that.
Its debatable (not certain) if that happened at Remington.But,it may have.
In any case,we give the customer the benefit of the doubt.He bought it new,it had the defect.
I don't know Remington's warranty.Most warrantees include "being free of defects in materials and workmanship"

I would expect Remington has a drawing with specs for a barrel.There will be a dimensional spec for the land and groove detail.
And there will be a surface finish (rms) spec.

The surfaces of that flaw would be non compliant dimensionally and in surface finish(assumption:I do not have the drawings)
I doubt the "repair" brings the barrel to "free of defects in materials and workmanship"
If you bought a new Harley Davidson and it had similar flaws in the tank or cases or exhaust,and Harley buffed them a bit and said"It goes down the road" I'm not sure that is good enough.
The customer should be able to resell his rifle for a given value.
If I looked in that barrel,used,I would be buying an action,not a rifle.
IMO,Remington should rebarrel it ,if there is nothing more to the story.

And my opinion is worth what I charged you for it....Nothing!!
 
If you are getting .75" groups (and with what? a tailored reload for accuracy in that rifle? or just some regular load??)

It might be wiser to simply quit while you are ahead, and live with the blemishes. What's your response if you get more work done (cut & crown?) and then it doesn't shoot as well as it does right now??

You said it didn't shoot well, sent it back and now it shoots well (at least I would think so, under an inch is "shoots well" in my book). Remington did what they should have done, get it to shoot well.

I do agree it should look nice, to, but what are you paying for, really, if not for how it shoots?, perhaps some kind of art that you only look at is a better use of your money.

I can understand how this experience could make you avoid future Remingtons, sadly "big green" isn't what they once were.

From here, I'd say that while Remington didn't make you happy, you didn't get screwed. it does shoot better, right?
 
He makes a good point about the re-crown possibly resulting in a less accurate barrel than what you've got now.

If it shoots sub-moa, I wouldn't mess with it.
 
jhinalabama, yep, you had a problem. Now that Remington "fixed" it, you have a bigger problem. Honestly, I bet if you bore scope the barrel, the whole thing is probably crap. As others have said, try to make Remington fix it right. It is not tool chatter. It looks like a defect in the steel before the rifling was cut. The thought of that is scary.:eek:
To all who are saying those are "microscopic defects," you might want to look up the definition of microscopic. I will give you a hint, if you can see it with your naked eye, its not microscopic. The defect is ridiculous and the crown looks like my three year old did it with a drill and a burr.
 
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Buying Remington was your first mistake. Trying to repair it would be good money chasing bad. Dump that garbage and get yourself a real gun. Get a real caliber while you're at it. 308 is far too slow.
 
To all who are saying those are "microscopic defects," you might want to look up the definition of microscopic. I will give you a hint, if you can see it with your naked eye, its not microscopic. The defect is ridiculous and the crown looks like my three year old did it with a drill and a burr.
Click to expand...
I guess you missed the part where he said he couldn't see it until he used a magnifying glass.
 
Nope. The picture posted is not much larger than 1 to 1 magnification. It is plainly visible in the photo. I guarantee you this is visible with the naked eye.
 
reynolds357:
"I guarantee you this is visible with the naked eye."
Click to expand...

This is what he said in Post #10:
"I had inspected the rifle for defects and could never find anything wrong with it until I used a magnifying glass."
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I'm not sure what picture you see, but on my monitor the bore appears about 5" wide

I'm guessing the worst part of the defect is about 0.060" long

It can be removed but it probably won't make it more accurate, and could make it worse.
 
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I am looking at the first picture he posted. I can blow it up huge, but it naturally came up in close to 1 to 1 size. Not microscopic. It is a crappy barrel. Crappy Q.C. let that one out.
 
A few things to consider, most of which have been brought up previously:

A barrel is designed to send the bullet on its way. This one does that better than a large percentage of rifles.

A barrel is a consumable part of the rifle. It will wear out.

That feeling of satisfaction is important. I've agonized over very good guns because there were small things that kept them from being "perfect." I understand this.

If you get a new barrel, it probably won't be as accurate. If you leave that mark there, you will know it in the back of your mind.

Solution I would pursue? Leave this barrel in place, have a good gunsmith do a cut and crown, which should not affect the accuracy, and have your peace of mind.

Probably a more logical approach would be to leave it as-is and enjoy the great accuracy, and keep the $100 bucks in your pocket.
 
Buying Remington was your first mistake. Trying to repair it would be good money chasing bad. Dump that garbage and get yourself a real gun. Get a real caliber while you're at it. 308 is far too slow.
Click to expand...

I think you need to put 'smilies' after comments like this.
 
A lot of pointless argument going on here.

I'll say again.

I do not think Rem has an accuracy guarantee. In the extreme,like 4 MOA,if it would not shoot,you might claim "defect in material and workmanship"
If it is shooting 1 MOA,you have no accuracy complaint.

But that is not the only parameter of quality that would be covered by "defects in materials and workmanship". A splotch in the bluing on a ne3w gun may not affect accuracy,but its a legit defect the will reduce resale.

I will assume Rem has a drawing for a barrel. The numbers will define a theoretically perfect barrel,and the tolerances will describe a maximum deviation . The bore might be checked with plug gages,or a star guage,or an air guage,or some newfangled electronic indicating guage.

If the tolerance defines the barrel shall be true,by one definition or another,to that theoretically perfect barrel,within xxxxx tolerance. If that defect and hone job takes that portion of the barrel out of spec,its defective if it shoots 0.2 MOA.
Most parts will have some form of surface finish call out.It might be "flame cut" or "saw cut" Often it is an RMS micron callout. Like a 32 fin or a 16 fin.
It gets checked with a profilometer,sort of like a phonograph tone arm and stylus.
I would bet the defect would fail a profilometer test.

Would you want the crankshaft rear main seal surface or a connecting rod journal or a cylinder bore of your new $50,000 pickup to have "A little flaw you could hardly see" We'll stone the high spot off,you go see if it will go 100 mph.What more do you want?

Whatever Remington did,IF that is a flaw from Remington,its substandard crap.
The ONLY right thing to do was rebarrel.Not put a bandaid on it.
That's what you do if you make QUALITY. That's how you treat your customers if you have the self respect for QUALITY.

If you are OK with producing substandard crap,then sanding it a bit and sending it out,because you really don't care about your customer or your product,well,this is what you do.

Maybe we accept it because its just easier that way.Maybe we find a different gunmaker.

But its really NOT OK ,and we should not accept it.

Would you want your family to fly on an aircraft made to that standard? Rifle barrels and aircraft parts are not so different.
 
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