Horrible Mistake! :(
- Thread starter Model12Win
- Start date
Grip Frame. Talking about the Grip Frame.... Not the cylinder frame which is and always will be steel. The medium frame flattop has a steel grip frame and steel ejector housing. The standard large frame does not ... unless it is a Bisley (or a Stainless Steel revolver) or Super Blackhawk. Always exceptions!
BTW, I wouldn't call it a 'mistake'... I'd call it an opportunity to start your Single Action collection
. Mine have mysteriously multiplied over the years. Still shoot the large frames as well as the medium frames. However, the medium frames are my go to revolvers now in .357, .44 Special, and .45 Colt (all in 5 1/2" barrel lengths). Might say I found my perfect pack'n pistols.
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Model12Win
Moderator
Guys well it's decided (for me) that the flattops have the superior action for my purposes. I thank you all for contributing to this discussion and for helping me, and I present another question to get me on the right path:
Will the flattop with the same barrel length (5 1/2") and the same caliber (.45 Colt) have a less muzzle-heavy feel in the hand over the standard full size Blackhawk I now own?
On Ruger's website, both models are listed at an identical 40 oz. So naturally this is probably due to the steel grip frame on the flattop. Does this mean more weight in the grip, less towards the muzzle as a result of the slimmer frame? I can't imagine the ejector housing being a significant change.
Will the flattop with the same barrel length (5 1/2") and the same caliber (.45 Colt) have a less muzzle-heavy feel in the hand over the standard full size Blackhawk I now own?
On Ruger's website, both models are listed at an identical 40 oz. So naturally this is probably due to the steel grip frame on the flattop. Does this mean more weight in the grip, less towards the muzzle as a result of the slimmer frame? I can't imagine the ejector housing being a significant change.
The are NOT identical in weight (talking blued models here -- not SS). The large frame is several ounces lighter than the medium frame flattop. As stated on another forum, I have both (in 5 1/2" barrel length). As for muzzle heavy, that is a personal 'feeling'. The steel ejector housing is heavier than you might think, but the steel grip frame helps balance it out a bit. You'll just have to handle one! Note that the grip 'handle' is a little smaller (more like a standard Colt) than the normal large frame plow handle. Just so you aren't surprised by that.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
There has been no half cock notch for loading on the hammer of a Ruger for over 40 years. When I bought my Blackhawk back in 1975, I did not even know a half cock notch existed on Colts because I had never handled a Colt at that point.
I was fat dumb and happy, using my Blackhawk for over 30 years. Yes, it can be a bit annoying when the cylinder clicks past the loading gate and you have to go around again to load that chamber, but it certainly is not the end of the world.
What happens is, if you carefully rotate the cylinder to line up a chamber with the loading gate, everything will be fine. But if you over rotate just a teeny amount, the pawl (hand) pops into the next ratchet tooth and there is no way to back up the cylinder to load or unload that chamber without going around again. I did it for over thirty years without pulling out too much hair.
There is no half cock notch on a New Vaquero hammer either, and I'll bet you a donut there is not one on that Flat Top you are interested in either.
Here is a photo of a New Vaquero hammer. Notice there is no 'safety cock' notch and no half cock notch. That small cutout near the hole for the pawl is the full cock notch. That's all you get.
What Ruger did to remedy this situation with the New Vaquero was they installed a spring plunger in the frame. The spring plunger is the round button looking thing near the cylinder pin hole. The plunger is positioned so that as you rotate the cylinder, the plunger will engage the ratchet teeth, keeping a chamber lined up with the loading gate. Got one in hand right now verifying this. With the loading gate open, the hand is completely withdrawn into the frame. What you hear clicking as you rotate the cylinder with the gate open is the spring plunger popping up between ratchet teeth. Nothing at all to do with the hand or any notches on the hammer.
I will bet you another donut that Ruger did the exact same thing with that Flat Top, since the frame is basically the same as a New Vaquero, with the addition of adjustable sights. No half cock hammer, just the spring plunger popping over the ratchet teeth as you rotate the cylinder. It does work very well, the plunger aligns each chamber perfectly with the loading gate.
Here's another rub. If you want to install a Free Spin Pawl, you have to remove that spring plunger from the frame, or it will prevent backing up the cylinder.
Why didn't Ruger update the frame of the full sized Blackhawk to include the spring plunger? Probably because they have sold bazillions of them, and it really isn't a big deal to rotate the cylinder carefully so you don't over rotate a little bit. Go around a few times, and you will learn to do that.
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Here is another option you may or may not like, because it is expensive.
You can buy an after market hammer for your Blackhawk that has a half cock notch on it. I have installed one of these half cock hammers in three of my 'original model' Vaqueros, that had the exact same annoying habit of over rotating because their frames were the exact same as the Blackhawk. Except for the adjustable sights.
Here is a photo of one of my 'original model' Vaqueros with the its hammer at the half cock position. Notice the chamber is perfectly lined up with the loading gate. With the hammer in this position, the cylinder no longer over rotates that teeny amount, you simply put the hammer at half cock and load exactly like a Colt. No, there is no 'safety cock' notch, just the half cock and full cock notches. So you don't get four clicks like a Colt, only three. (The middle click is the bolt popping up.)
Here is a link to the Power Custom half cock hammers for Rugers. Click on the photo to expand it and you can see the half cock notch up near the spring plunger of the hammer.
http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=136
Note: the machining of these hammers is actually better than the original stock hammers. I can testify to that. The originals are castings. The Power Custom hammers are cut by Wire EDM, and are more precisely made than the OEM hammers. Also, if you buy the kit, and install one of the lower strength hammer springs, it will indeed reduce your trigger pull, because the heavier the hammer spring, the more friction the sear has to overcome sliding out of the full cock notch. I recommend the mid strength spring (18 pounds). That is what I put in all my Vaqueros. Also, don't cheap out and cut up your trigger like the instructions suggest. Spend a few more bucks and buy the Power Custom trigger that is already shaped properly for the half cock hammer.
This solution really does work, and you will get the half cock hammer that I'll bet you a donut you will not get with that Flat Top Ruger.
Or, you could try to find an original Three Screw Ruger like this Three Screw 44 Mag Flat Top that really does have a half cock hammer.
Happy Hunting.
There has been no half cock notch for loading on the hammer of a Ruger for over 40 years. When I bought my Blackhawk back in 1975, I did not even know a half cock notch existed on Colts because I had never handled a Colt at that point.
I was fat dumb and happy, using my Blackhawk for over 30 years. Yes, it can be a bit annoying when the cylinder clicks past the loading gate and you have to go around again to load that chamber, but it certainly is not the end of the world.
What happens is, if you carefully rotate the cylinder to line up a chamber with the loading gate, everything will be fine. But if you over rotate just a teeny amount, the pawl (hand) pops into the next ratchet tooth and there is no way to back up the cylinder to load or unload that chamber without going around again. I did it for over thirty years without pulling out too much hair.
There is no half cock notch on a New Vaquero hammer either, and I'll bet you a donut there is not one on that Flat Top you are interested in either.
Here is a photo of a New Vaquero hammer. Notice there is no 'safety cock' notch and no half cock notch. That small cutout near the hole for the pawl is the full cock notch. That's all you get.
What Ruger did to remedy this situation with the New Vaquero was they installed a spring plunger in the frame. The spring plunger is the round button looking thing near the cylinder pin hole. The plunger is positioned so that as you rotate the cylinder, the plunger will engage the ratchet teeth, keeping a chamber lined up with the loading gate. Got one in hand right now verifying this. With the loading gate open, the hand is completely withdrawn into the frame. What you hear clicking as you rotate the cylinder with the gate open is the spring plunger popping up between ratchet teeth. Nothing at all to do with the hand or any notches on the hammer.
I will bet you another donut that Ruger did the exact same thing with that Flat Top, since the frame is basically the same as a New Vaquero, with the addition of adjustable sights. No half cock hammer, just the spring plunger popping over the ratchet teeth as you rotate the cylinder. It does work very well, the plunger aligns each chamber perfectly with the loading gate.
Here's another rub. If you want to install a Free Spin Pawl, you have to remove that spring plunger from the frame, or it will prevent backing up the cylinder.
Why didn't Ruger update the frame of the full sized Blackhawk to include the spring plunger? Probably because they have sold bazillions of them, and it really isn't a big deal to rotate the cylinder carefully so you don't over rotate a little bit. Go around a few times, and you will learn to do that.
----------------------------------------
Here is another option you may or may not like, because it is expensive.
You can buy an after market hammer for your Blackhawk that has a half cock notch on it. I have installed one of these half cock hammers in three of my 'original model' Vaqueros, that had the exact same annoying habit of over rotating because their frames were the exact same as the Blackhawk. Except for the adjustable sights.
Here is a photo of one of my 'original model' Vaqueros with the its hammer at the half cock position. Notice the chamber is perfectly lined up with the loading gate. With the hammer in this position, the cylinder no longer over rotates that teeny amount, you simply put the hammer at half cock and load exactly like a Colt. No, there is no 'safety cock' notch, just the half cock and full cock notches. So you don't get four clicks like a Colt, only three. (The middle click is the bolt popping up.)
Here is a link to the Power Custom half cock hammers for Rugers. Click on the photo to expand it and you can see the half cock notch up near the spring plunger of the hammer.
http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=136
Note: the machining of these hammers is actually better than the original stock hammers. I can testify to that. The originals are castings. The Power Custom hammers are cut by Wire EDM, and are more precisely made than the OEM hammers. Also, if you buy the kit, and install one of the lower strength hammer springs, it will indeed reduce your trigger pull, because the heavier the hammer spring, the more friction the sear has to overcome sliding out of the full cock notch. I recommend the mid strength spring (18 pounds). That is what I put in all my Vaqueros. Also, don't cheap out and cut up your trigger like the instructions suggest. Spend a few more bucks and buy the Power Custom trigger that is already shaped properly for the half cock hammer.
This solution really does work, and you will get the half cock hammer that I'll bet you a donut you will not get with that Flat Top Ruger.
Or, you could try to find an original Three Screw Ruger like this Three Screw 44 Mag Flat Top that really does have a half cock hammer.
Happy Hunting.
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Model12Win
Moderator
I'll bet you a donut I never once mentioned a half-cock on any Ruger that I bought or am planning to buy, since I know they don't have one and haven't since the 1970s.
"The way I eject my empties is I push on the ejector rod and let it ride the front of the cylinder with the gun pointed up. Then when a charge hole comes up the rod drops in the hole and the empty is ejected."
Basically, yeah. My first handgun was a 22 single six. I got it as a teenager. If you push the ejector rod in VERY VERY lightly as you turn the cylinder, it will start to enter the chamber just as it lines up and you can easily eject all of your empties without having to re-rotate. It isn't difficult.
I have a couple of Single Sixes, a couple of New Model Blackhawks, and an Old Model (three-screw) Super Blackhawk. The cylinder of the three-screw spins freely when it's at half-cock, but I don't find it any easier to load or unload as a result. With enough practice it's a simple procedure.
Basically, yeah. My first handgun was a 22 single six. I got it as a teenager. If you push the ejector rod in VERY VERY lightly as you turn the cylinder, it will start to enter the chamber just as it lines up and you can easily eject all of your empties without having to re-rotate. It isn't difficult.
I have a couple of Single Sixes, a couple of New Model Blackhawks, and an Old Model (three-screw) Super Blackhawk. The cylinder of the three-screw spins freely when it's at half-cock, but I don't find it any easier to load or unload as a result. With enough practice it's a simple procedure.
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You never know when you will be reading a history book and be bitten by a radioactive book work and struck by lightning, and transported to the ok corral, with nothing but your trusty ruger hogleg strapped to your side, and oh, looky, you had it full of snap caps for a dry fire session.
When the zombie apocalypse comes, you had better grab your glock in the nylon holster and belt with five extra magazines, instead of the blackhawk with thirty rounds in the loops of the belt and none in the cylinder.
Bill Ruger obviously didn't spend very much time thinking about inadvertent time travel or zombie attack. I can't say that I blame him.
I've owned & worked with Ruger single-actions for 42 years.
The standard Ruger Blackhawk's action isn't as handy as a Colt, but I've got a convertible .45 Colt/ACP Blackhawk that went through Hamilton Bowen's hands & it won't leave mine till I die.
I also own two Flattops, one in .44 Special & one Anniversary .44 Mag.
Both of those use the smaller-frame & indexing plunger system.
On both, since I don't trust that plunger, I removed it to create a free-spin cylinder.
I do like the free-spin set-up, but I could, can, and will continue to not turn up my nose at the standard Blackhawk action.
Quick reloads in those guns are not an issue.
The free-spin is handier, but not for speedloading.
Denis
The standard Ruger Blackhawk's action isn't as handy as a Colt, but I've got a convertible .45 Colt/ACP Blackhawk that went through Hamilton Bowen's hands & it won't leave mine till I die.
I also own two Flattops, one in .44 Special & one Anniversary .44 Mag.
Both of those use the smaller-frame & indexing plunger system.
On both, since I don't trust that plunger, I removed it to create a free-spin cylinder.
I do like the free-spin set-up, but I could, can, and will continue to not turn up my nose at the standard Blackhawk action.
Quick reloads in those guns are not an issue.
The free-spin is handier, but not for speedloading.
Denis
Yes, they both have the plunger system, but the Anniversary .44 Mag is on the LARGE frame.
I personally like the plunger set-up. Makes indexing easier and I've never had an issue with it on any of my flattops and New Vaqueros. At least for me. I tried free-spin my .45 Colt original Vaquero, but really didn't care for it, so went back to standard pawl.
Welcome to the new model Ruger Blackhawk action. Sorry the model you got wasn't the one you thought it was. Blame the jury that decided Ruger was responsible for one guy's incompetence.
I've only been using the new model Blackhawk for 35 years, and I had an advantage going in, I wasn't brainwashed (er, pardon me, experienced) enough to know how a "proper" single action was supposed to work.
While the original Ruger SA worked just like Colts, the New Models do not.
there are some tricks one learns to overcome the new model's "failings", or you can just pay attention to what you are doing, and don't expect it to be something other than what it is.
Don't count cylinder clicks. With the stock New Model Blackhawk, when you hear the click you are past where you want to be, and there's NO going back, only going around again. Not a huge problem, and seldom happens when you are looking right at it. But when you aren't you almost always go too far, once or twice loading the cylinder. It happens.
For me, there is a trick which works in .44/.45 guns when I'm not looking right at the cylinder (and would also work in the dark). Its awkward but it does work. Left Index finger over the chamber at 9o'clock, rotate cylinder until that finger hits the frame. The chamber at 3 o'clock will be in the right spot to load. I don't usually do this, I just watch things as they line up, but that technique does work, for me, anyway.
I've only been using the new model Blackhawk for 35 years, and I had an advantage going in, I wasn't brainwashed (er, pardon me, experienced) enough to know how a "proper" single action was supposed to work.
While the original Ruger SA worked just like Colts, the New Models do not.
there are some tricks one learns to overcome the new model's "failings", or you can just pay attention to what you are doing, and don't expect it to be something other than what it is.
Don't count cylinder clicks. With the stock New Model Blackhawk, when you hear the click you are past where you want to be, and there's NO going back, only going around again. Not a huge problem, and seldom happens when you are looking right at it. But when you aren't you almost always go too far, once or twice loading the cylinder. It happens.
For me, there is a trick which works in .44/.45 guns when I'm not looking right at the cylinder (and would also work in the dark). Its awkward but it does work. Left Index finger over the chamber at 9o'clock, rotate cylinder until that finger hits the frame. The chamber at 3 o'clock will be in the right spot to load. I don't usually do this, I just watch things as they line up, but that technique does work, for me, anyway.
In a nutshell...
First, all '.44 Mag' revolvers are on the large frame from '56 to present. Some are flattops and some have the 'ears', but all are on the large frame -- Old Model and New Model. Note, Ruger did try to put the .44 Mag on the medium frame at first, but proof loads showed a slight problem -- the cylinders blew. Hence the large frame.
Keeping that in mind, all New Model Blackhawks ('72 to present) and Super Blackhawks are on the same large cylinder frame. This includes the .357, .41 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt ... fluted/unfluted cylinders, the Bisley, the Hunter, and original Vaqueros. Exception is the .357 Maximum Blackhawk which has an 'extended' large frame and cylinder.
The Old Model .357 was on the medium frame. Many of these were turned into .44 Special revolvers by gunsmiths. Along came the flattop New Model Anniversary .357 in 2005 on the medium frame. Could it happen? Yep it did! Lipsey made a special run of .44 Special flattops (finally!), and then the .45 Colt/.45 ACP (Yes, a must have!) which the OP is wanting. Finally Lipsey did a special run of .357/9mm as well on the medium frame (alright!) in the 5 1/2" barrel length. Also, the New Vaqueros are on the same medium frame -- just have fixed sights.
Anyway, just a brief incomplete history of Ruger SA revolvers...
Note I talk about the 'cylinder frame' above. There are a several different 'grip frames' that match up to the large and medium frames. Hammers, triggers, ejector housings etc.... Another subject to make it more confusing!
The standard .45 Colt BH is the same size. The .45 Colt 'flattop' is not as it is on the medium frame.
First, all '.44 Mag' revolvers are on the large frame from '56 to present. Some are flattops and some have the 'ears', but all are on the large frame -- Old Model and New Model. Note, Ruger did try to put the .44 Mag on the medium frame at first, but proof loads showed a slight problem -- the cylinders blew. Hence the large frame.
Keeping that in mind, all New Model Blackhawks ('72 to present) and Super Blackhawks are on the same large cylinder frame. This includes the .357, .41 Mag, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt ... fluted/unfluted cylinders, the Bisley, the Hunter, and original Vaqueros. Exception is the .357 Maximum Blackhawk which has an 'extended' large frame and cylinder.
The Old Model .357 was on the medium frame. Many of these were turned into .44 Special revolvers by gunsmiths. Along came the flattop New Model Anniversary .357 in 2005 on the medium frame. Could it happen? Yep it did! Lipsey made a special run of .44 Special flattops (finally!), and then the .45 Colt/.45 ACP (Yes, a must have!) which the OP is wanting. Finally Lipsey did a special run of .357/9mm as well on the medium frame (alright!) in the 5 1/2" barrel length. Also, the New Vaqueros are on the same medium frame -- just have fixed sights.
Anyway, just a brief incomplete history of Ruger SA revolvers...
Note I talk about the 'cylinder frame' above. There are a several different 'grip frames' that match up to the large and medium frames. Hammers, triggers, ejector housings etc.... Another subject to make it more confusing!
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Just hauled all three out to check.
The Lipsey's .44 Special Flattop's on the smaller frame.
The .44 Mag Ann does turn out to be the same size as my .45 Colt/ACP Convertible Blackhawk.
Been so long since I'd had the Mag & Colt in hand together I'd forgotten.
Front upper forward frame bevels are different, which at first glance makes 'em look slightly different in length, but side by side they are the same.
Denis
The Lipsey's .44 Special Flattop's on the smaller frame.
The .44 Mag Ann does turn out to be the same size as my .45 Colt/ACP Convertible Blackhawk.
Been so long since I'd had the Mag & Colt in hand together I'd forgotten.
Front upper forward frame bevels are different, which at first glance makes 'em look slightly different in length, but side by side they are the same.
Denis
A very interesting and informative thread.
I am constantly amazed at the depth of knowledge on this site and the willingness of folk to share their expertise with pictures, descriptions, anecdotes etc. (I won't mention names, you know who you are.)
It might be analogous to having Albert Einstein drop what he's doing to come over and help with your algebra homework.
Thanks to all the contributors.
I am constantly amazed at the depth of knowledge on this site and the willingness of folk to share their expertise with pictures, descriptions, anecdotes etc. (I won't mention names, you know who you are.)
It might be analogous to having Albert Einstein drop what he's doing to come over and help with your algebra homework.
Thanks to all the contributors.
Model12Win
Moderator
Well here is the gun with some faux stag grips:
I don't know... starting to grow on me some...
I don't know... starting to grow on me some...
Now go shoot it. I bet it grows on you even more.
If I bought a Ruger 45 long/45 acp you have the exact model I would have bought. I for one like the lighter weight of the allow frame. Some polish the grip frame silver and that looks neat. But I wouldn't do that unless the finish is worn.
If I bought a Ruger 45 long/45 acp you have the exact model I would have bought. I for one like the lighter weight of the allow frame. Some polish the grip frame silver and that looks neat. But I wouldn't do that unless the finish is worn.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Sorry if I mistakenly assumed you thought there would be a half cock hammer on the smaller framed Blackhawk.