Homeschooling

[pipoman]

I believe a survey of homeschooling parents will reveal most to be fundamentalist religious zealots. The quoted homeschooling test results are largely irrelevant to this discussion.

It appears most of us agree this is truly "idiotic".

I am not a home schooler, nor was I home schooled.

The simple answer to Rivers argument is:

THEY ARE MY CHILDREN!

Children are not public property in the US, they are private property.

If you give government 1 inch on their authority to regulate how you raise your children they will absolutely take a mile.

Children do not have rights afforded to adults. Children are not full citizens. Adolescents find this frustrating. After most people become parents of 5 year olds they realize how brilliant this aspect of our society is.

Children will never be full citizens in the US. This means they will always be the property of someone/something. I prefer to have them remain my property and my neighbors kids their property. Even if I do not agree with my neighbors philosophies the worst they can do is indoctrinate their own children. If I do not agree with various beliefs/practices espoused in the public arena, I want the ability to do some of my own indoctrination (and do).

 

[Rebar]

If you give government 1 inch on their authority to regulate how you raise your children they will absolutely take a mile.

I guess you never read this masterpiece:

"It's for the children", who spouts this as their reason for stripping us of our rights? The democrats and the loony left (if there's a difference anymore). And who will be their candidate in 2008? The author of this book.

So, who are you going to vote for?

 

[Redworm]

I understand your feelings about your child. I wasn't advocating that students be paddled for talking in class, of course. I think paddling should be one of the last options on a continuum of options, just like CCW/use of deadly force is only one part (and one of the last) of a continuum of responses to threats of violence.

"The devil is in the details," and coming up with workable solutions to this situation is something I certainly haven't invented thus far. That's why I support the various avenues of schooling mentioned in this thread. One must determine what is right for their child.

I hope all goes well for your friend in Sioux Falls.

Er, I need to correct myself. When I said "my child" I meant hypothetically. I've helped raise one but I'm not a parent myself.

I do see your point when you mention saving it as a last resort. My worry is that it would have kids getting paddled two or three times a day for simply not shutting up.

The entire rotten structure needs to be torn down, and all education privatized. Then homeschooling wouldbecome a thing of the past, since parents could then choose the best school for their kids.

Y'know, while I agree on your assessment of public education I have to wonder about those families that wouldn't be able to afford private education. I'd be happy with state run public schools if the problems you mentioned were solved.

 

[mvpel]

My son just turned 1 yr old in Nov. and homeshooling is something we are very interested in.

The fact is, Das, you and your spouse are already homeschooling your child in every aspect of your lives. This is the natural state of the relationship between children and their families. This recent invention (about 150 years old) of ripping children away from their families at the age of five to stuff them into government-run indoctrination and socialist "socialization" facilities is what's unnatural.

It was designed by wealthy industrialists and self-styled social engineers to avoid the "over-education" of the general public so that they would make docile and complacent factory workers.

 

[Matis]

It seems like a lot of missing details, rather than a general conspiracy.

Home schooling is common, and no one is getting arrested for it.

Sorry, Handy it happens with all-too-distressing frequency.


The url for Home School Legal Defense Association has already been posted above. They document many cases of government bullying of home-schoolers.

The government schools hate home-schooling as it deprives them of taxpayer funds for each pupil rescued from their clutches. And makes them look bad; home-schooled kids score about 30% on average above public-school kids.


We home-schooled our daughter for 6 years, 'till high-school. She's now in her last year of Yeshiva (Jewish religious high-school) in Connecticut. The standards there are very high and the students must divide their day between secular and religious subjects.

I just had her latest report card 3 weeks ago: 6 A's and 6 A minuses. Pardon me while I gloat! She's far better educated than typical public school students and I don't mean inner-city kids. She can THINK. She's an EXCELLENT writer. She's thinking of attending Yale Law School (means I'll have to leave retirement and get a job to pay for it. Nothing would make me happier!)


When researching the idea, I learned of the persecution home-schoolers face and I stumbled onto HLSDA. They ARE a Christian Evangelical organization. They were founded in the early 80's and have transformed home-schooling in the United States. Many state legislatures now ask them to help write home-schooling laws. Because they HATE the hundreds of parents that will descend on the state or federal capitol if they try to sneak something through! HSLDA knows how to mobilize the troops!

Things are MUCH better now, thanks to HSLDA, but government being what it is, there is still intimidation of home-schooling parents.


Social workers arrive at the door because of an anonymous "tip" and demand entrance to the house, to interview the kids without the parents present, etc. If refused they threaten to bring the police.

Most people have limited financial resources and limited legal awareness. So many parents cave.


HSLDA members OTOH, refuse entry, dial the HSLDA 800 # anytime 24/7, hand the phone out the barely cracked-open door and say, "Here, talk to my lawyer."

Puts a whole different face on the matter. The lawyer points out that the 4th amendment applies even to agents of the state like "social workers". He negotiates an appropriate solution, e.g. you can see the kids by appointment and only with the parent present. He warns the social worker and even the police, if they're there, that the school district, the social worker and even the cop can be sued personally for infringing the civil rights of the family.

Very often that ends the matter. Sometimes the authorities are stubborn. HSDLA will stand with the family and take the matter right up the appellate court chain as high as necessary.

Not a bad deal for $100 a year!


When we started home-schooling, I called them up, told them I'd heard very good things about them -- and asked if they had any problem with our being Jewish. They said none at all. Then I told them I had great respect for Christianity and for them -- BUT I had no interest whatsoever in any possible prosletyzing! No attempts at conversion, subtle or otherwise. That gave the man (one of the attornies) a moments pause, but he came through and said OK.

Fortunately we were never bothered by the authorities. But I can't tell you how much better I felt knowing I had the HSLDA card and phone number in my pocket. We still get their newsletter. I absolutely LOVE HSLDA!


I suggest you tell the mother to get in touch with HSLDA. Normally you must already be a member. But if they cannot get involved at this point, they will certainly offer excellent advice. And maybe they will get involved.

I wish her and her child the very best of luck.




DasBoot, you understand the problem well.

I hope you do your research, gather the best support available and HOME-SCHOOL YOUR PRECIOUS CHILD!

We selected an excellent curriculum from many available. A lot more "old-fashioned" and conservative than what is purveyed in the "schools" these days.

Some parents prefer to do it all themselves and prepare their own curriculum. Takes more time and effort, but either way, it's very rewarding.

I loved teaching my daughter (but like George Washington, I cannot tell a lie -- her mother did a lot more of the teaching than did I). And I learned a lot that I didn't know before.

Go for it, DasBoot!


matis

 

[BIGJACK]

OOPPS! sorry about that ANTIPITUS, I was recollecting the restrictions on the General discussion thread. Thought all were supposed to be gun related but glad to hear that they are not.

 

[DasBoot]

Matis,
GO AHEAD AND GLOAT!!!!
You have every right to be proud.
Not only of your daughter, but of yourself for loving your child enough to do what you did.
In other words, for being A GOOD PARENT!!
I will begin to investigate this further.
But what I don't understand is......HOW AM I GOING TO TEACH THINGS I DON'T KNOW MYSELF???
Algebra, biology, etc.
Are the lessons set up so that anyone can teach them, regardless of their knowledge in that particular field?
I'm lucky in that my wife is able to stay home full-time with our little guy so he is getting fantastic early development.
I've never seen a baby laugh so much!!!
I have quite a bit of teaching experience and my wife spent several yrs working in day care, so she knows all the little tricks to stimulate that little brain of his.
When homeschooling, how do you make up for the lack of social interaction with the other kids that you would have in a "normal" school setting?
Man! The questions are coming at me like lightening!!!!
Is the HSLDA the site I should look at to get details on doing this?
If not, where should I look?

 

[Rivers]

Why bother with sending your Einsteinian little girl to Yale Law? Why not just homeschool here in the law? You surely don't want to send your prodigal child to that bastion of secular liberalism, do you?

I would consider homeschooling under the following conditions: (1) Quality public schools in which uncivilized future-DemocRAT uncivilized savages did not attend were not available; or (2) there were no private schools available. Reasons espoused by so-called evangelicals are unique to the ignorance of folks of that persuasion; I don't want any part of it.

As opposed to Redworm, I have, in fact, done a pretty splendid job of raising four children...not a failure amongst the group. As a matter of fact, they're extraordinarily successful.

Much of the homeschool curriculum is generated by a small, fundamentalist Baptist organization located in Pensacola, FL. The idiocy of their textbooks is shocking. Eg., fossil fuels were created instanter by the "enormous pressures created by the Great Flood around 4000-or-so years ago. The Earth is only a few thousand years old. If you (speaking to the children) read books that say that the Earth is millions of years old, ignore that source. Dinosaurs and humans co-existed.....blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum."

Might I add that many child abusers resort to homeschooling for obvious reasons.

 

[pipoman]

Much of the homeschool curriculum is generated by a small, fundamentalist Baptist organization located in Pensacola, FL. The idiocy of their textbooks is shocking. Eg., fossil fuels were created instanter by the "enormous pressures created by the Great Flood around 4000-or-so years ago. The Earth is only a few thousand years old. If you (speaking to the children) read books that say that the Earth is millions of years old, ignore that source. Dinosaurs and humans co-existed.....blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum."

It seems to get back to "I will tell you what to believe, and when you are smart enough".

If I am home schooling with the help of a home school curriculum I can choose how to present any of the prevailing THEORIES. Public school curriculum is interpreted by the teacher. How well do you know your children's teachers? What are their religious, political, and moral view points? How do these things effect their interpretations?

It is not called the "theory of evolution" for nothing.

I am so tired of the left wing evolutionists persisting on the demand children only be taught their version or THEORY of humanity's existence. Over look the holes and accept this THEORY with faith. Maybe I would have more faith if I had not studied early 18th and 19th century science texts. Its the truth of the time. The same arguments have been coming out of the scientific community since they were arguing the Earth is flat.

Frankly I think a case can be made that human existence began on Mars without too many more holes than the theory of evolution.

 

[Normal45]

Might I add that many child abusers resort to homeschooling for obvious reasons.

This made me go back on my "last post" post!

First, home schoolers are religious wackos. Now, child abusers?!

Come on...if that's true, and you have knowledge of it, you have an obligation to notify the police immediately!

I have four children, also, and all graduated from public high schools. One is a US Navy LT, one is a Marine 2nd Lt. and the other 2 are college graduates with careers in business.

We considered homeschooling the youngest and got as far as checking out the available course offerings. There are several from which to choose. From strictly secular to very religious. You can find the one that best suits you philosophy of life and education.
Unlike the public schools curriculum where you take what they have and keep your mouth shut or be branded a extreme, religious right-wing"troublemaker".

 

[Redworm]

Frankly I think a case can be made that human existence began on Mars without too many more holes than the theory of evolution.

It can. The debate as to whether or not what was found on Mars can truly be considered life is still going on but there is always the possibility that the seeds for life on Earth originated elsewhere in the universe. The science is there for it and it's not mutually exclusive with evolution.

I'm not trying to spark a religious debate, I just wanted to point out that there are theories that include that particular model.

 

[Cowled_Wolfe]

As a public educations student...

I'd like to stick my opinion here.

Public schools are a great place for students to learn about interacting with other people. Unfourtunately, they don't cater so well to those who need an education in something such as reading or math.

By its own nature, public schooling has to accept a wide variety of kids, from the future Eintsteins and Asimovs, to the future Curlys and Moes. Because of this, all the classes (even 'special placement' ones, to a certain extent) have to dumb themselves down towards the lowest common denominator. For instance, in a science class, they'll always begin by using the first several weeks (in my experience, roughly a third of the trimester/semester/quarter) just reviewing the fundamentals of the scientific method, etc. For the smart, it's a waste of time. For the stupid, to be quite frank, it's still a waste of time -- anyone who puts half an effort would know it by the second time through.

Also, there's the issue of district control over the content students view. Recently, I had to read and review a book, etc. I picked a book on politics from a public library, and brought it before my teacher. Apparently, there's a district-held list of books deemed "acceptable". A very small list.

Schools these days are also out to teach kids how to use technology in the modern world. For instance, how to search the internet, gather the data, and put it into a meaningful report.

However, in order to prevent 'inappropriate' material from coming into view, students are being required to use services with filtered content, rather than something like Google. The best example recently was a career research paper -- you can research any career you like, as long as it's on a specific site. You have to find a whole list of specific details on the career -- all of which are listed on the site in neat order, which can be copied with a minimum of effort in no time flat.

That's a really challenging use of technology, having to look at a single site to find everything you need and all.

Personally, the majority of what I've learned hasn't come from public schools. My typing and grammar skills are from chatrooms and forums like this one. My ability to solve problems and stuff didn't come from some 'critical thinking' protion of an assignment. Those things are a joke; yes, they always ask you to express your viewpoint on an issue. It's just a coincidence that the text provides an easy to use pre-made opinion.

My 'critical thinking' skills, as it were, are from real life situations. No, not the school textbook's situations like 'Jane had to buy 15 cabbages etc..." I mean from actual experience. Experience you don't get enough of by spending 7 hours a day with the collective -- err, schools.

The only thing I can think of I'd credit most of my progress in to the schools is math. But then again, that's my worst subject.

Wolfe... (Thank God I got out of the system... For the most part, anyways.)

 

[Matis]

Why bother with sending your Einsteinian little girl to Yale Law? Why not just homeschool here in the law? You surely don't want to send your prodigal child to that bastion of secular liberalism, do you?

Actually I agree with you, Rivers, about the Einsteinian part.

You're quite right about the bastian of liveralism and perversion that our universities, especially the Ivey-leagues, have become. Aside from professors encouraging the students to try homosexual or lesbian experience and then present papers to the class (think I'm exagerating?), the looney leftist cant and degenerate cast of the whole place -- aside from that, the student dorms are unisex, students can have overnite guests of either sex, etc. They get drunk, take drugs and so on.

However, there are also good teachers and the benefits of attending an Ivey-League school outweigh other schools, where much of this also occurs.

After legal battles, students are now allowed to live off campus in their own arrangements. Orthodox and Chassidic Jews are now organized and keep to themselves. They take courses, have each other for support and avoid the perverted side. They eat kosher, keep the Sabbath and the holidays. They are strongly committed to their religious values and this can keep them safe from their destructive surroundings.. Although there are never any guarantees, most get through alright.

Many religious parents do keep their kids out of schools except for the religious ones run by their own groups. They have a point. But I agree with my daughter that she is prepared and will benefit from this experience.


I think that believing Christians have similar arrangements.


It is the children of parents who did NOT successfully pass on their values that are most at risk and many of those are severely damaged in that enviroment. I have seen more than one such child scorn their parents values, thinking that they have outgrown them.

Much of the homeschool curriculum is generated by a small, fundamentalist Baptist organization located in Pensacola, FL. The idiocy of their textbooks is shocking. Eg., fossil fuels were created instanter by the "enormous pressures created by the Great Flood around 4000-or-so years ago. The Earth is only a few thousand years old. If you (speaking to the children) read books that say that the Earth is millions of years old, ignore that source. Dinosaurs and humans co-existed.....blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum."

Actually home-schooling is growing rapidly and the free-market supplies a huge spectrum of curricula. You can find what suits you or teach your own curriculum.

I have been reading lately, that the pools in some depleted oil-fields have been refilling. New research is underway to explain this. Looks like oil may NOT be fossilized dinosaurs, ancient ferns, etc. Google this for yourself.

Might I add that many child abusers resort to homeschooling for obvious reasons.

I doubt that there are many such. But what about such problems at public school. My daughter was spared exposure to cigarettes, booze, drugs, pre-marital sex and the degeneracy, both morally and politically of the curriclum.


matis

 

[MeekAndMild]

I am so tired of the left wing evolutionists persisting on the demand children only be taught their version or THEORY of humanity's existence.

Very few people who understand evolution are left wingers and most of us aren't atheists. (As a nitpicking fact many left wingers cannot tolerate science in any form, much less evolutionary science.)

FYI science is science and religion is religion. Science is not religion and religion is not science.

True diversity is of the good things about home schooling. Kids who want to become biochemists and paleobotonists don't have to take exactly the same courses as those who want to become gospel singers. The fake diversity of equal ignorance is the hallmark of modern public education.

 

[Twycross]

Might I add that many child abusers resort to homeschooling for obvious reasons.

And may I add that many criminals resort to firearms for obvious reasons.

 

[Matis]

Matis,

I will begin to investigate this further.
But what I don't understand is......HOW AM I GOING TO TEACH THINGS I DON'T KNOW MYSELF???
Algebra, biology, etc.
Are the lessons set up so that anyone can teach them, regardless of their knowledge in that particular field?

Yes, the books have accompanying answer books for the parents. And most are set up for the purpose so actually both the student AND the parent are learning. For subjects that the parent feels unable to teach, you can find internet resources the student can use on their own. Or you can find groups of home-schooling families who "farm out" some courses to parents or tutors who know the subjects.

Almost any parent can home-school. From your post, you and your wife are very well equipped to do so.

When homeschooling, how do you make up for the lack of social interaction with the other kids that you would have in a "normal" school setting?

This is a main criticism of home-schooling by those without such experience. Home-schooling parents do not operate in a vacuum. There are state and local organizations of all sorts to affiliate with for support, for group activies for the children, etc. This is simply NOT a problem at all.

What amazes me is that people who fling this criticism seem to have no objection to the cigarrettes, booze, drugs, sex, fighting, gangs, racial intimidation and so on in the government schools. They can keep their "socialization". One important reason to home-school is to avoid such socialization.

Man! The questions are coming at me like lightening!!!!

DasBoot, this gets more exciting the more you look into it. You will be providing the very best education available to your child, tailored to him. 70-80% of what goes on in a public school day is wasted -- either administrative, moving from room to room, enduring the bad behavior of kids who cannot be disciplined and so on. Very little time is actually devoted to real learning and most of that is usually dumbed down and indoctrination.

Is the HSLDA the site I should look at to get details on doing this?
If not, where should I look?

HSLDA is an excellent resource. Beside legal protection, they publish many books on home schooling, why you should, how to get started, and so on.

I'd select a few books from their list to start with. If you google home-schooling resources, or words to that effect, there won't be enough time in the day for you to follow up the volume of material you will find.


Personally, I believe the problems of the public schools are insoluble. Aside from being government bureaucracies, which alone dooms them, how can they satisfy the various demands of parents from so many varying backgrounds and value systems. It's impossible. So instead they foster the values of the teachers unions and politicians. It's a stupid arrangement to begin with. Especially in todays "diverse" and "multicultural" environment.

Even if there were a way to solve such problems, I WILL NOT sacrifice my child to this horrible system while it "reforms" itself.

We need to replace this mess with private schools, both religious and secular that cater to all kinds of value systems. Stop extracting the taxes that are largely wasted on the public school system and we will be able to afford private schools or home-schooling. And the United States will return from near the bottom of the quality scale of the world's schools to back near the top where we used to be. Actually, the continued financial success of this country depends on this.


You will find home-schooling a wonderful adventure if you decide to do it, DasBoot.


Best to you and your family,


matis

 

[pipoman]

FYI science is science and religion is religion. Science is not religion and religion is not science.

I don't know what the point of this astute observation is.

My point is I do not believe there is definitive proof that the secrets of mans existence is scientific in nature and not religious in nature.

By the way, I am from Kansas. Kansas seems to be the current front line for the evolution vs. "intelligent design" debate currently.

I didn't mean to change the subject, I think alot of people pick home schooling because of this debate.

 

[Wildalaska]

Many kids in the Public School system are filled with silly liberal claptrap.

Many kids Home schooled are filled with tinfoily hat claptrap.

None of them know how to read and write. All of em need to toss out the video games and turn off the TV.

WildkillyourtelevsionAlaska

 

[Baba Louie]

Surprised no one has mentioned JT Gatto in this regards...

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm

I read "Dumbing Us Down" years ago when my kids were in public schools (hey, it worked for me... sorta) and decided to add to the experience our kids were getting via taxpayers dollars. His book opened my eyes and allowed great discussions with the kid's teachers, a few of whom had actually read Gatto.

Here, in Clark Co (Las Vegas) NV to home school you've got to register with some form of outside group to monitor your progress via a "certified" teacher. If you, as a/the parent, have the necessary certification, you put together your curriculum and go for it.

I recommend reading Gatto's work for all aspiring teachers and parents who will subject their offspring into the turmoil we call "public schools".

But it actually takes a parent willing to sit down and read... something sorely lacking in todays world of "instant gratification".

Hope all turns out well with Redworm's SD friend.

 

[spacemanspiff]

hey, wouldnt it be cool to hear from someone who was homeschooled?


whoa! I was homeschooled!


the state of alaska has funded a correspondance school because not every village across the state has access to public schools, nor does the large amount of families who truly live 'off the grid' and far far away from populated areas.
the curriculum is virtually identical to what students in public schools have. there are teachers available via phone ( and now i assume by email) that students can contact directly for help. parents are only expected to administer tests.
my mom had my brother and sister enrolled in home school for a short while, and when i got old enough for school, she put me in it as well. then she offered public school as a choice to us kids, and my borther and sister chose public, while i chose home school. up until middle school, she kept me busy at it, from about 8am to 4pm at least 4 days a week.
by that time she then trusted me enough to let me set my own schedule, and even let me take my own tests. (big mistake, i cheated from then on out, all open book tests).

what i enjoyed most about home schooling was that i could get my work completed as fast as i wanted. i didnt have to be confined to sept-june school years.

and although i did wind up cheating on tests, and even with cheating, i wound up dropping out and getting my GED, i think i came away with a better education than my friends who were in public schools. my teachers back in juneau let me set up my own 'contract' type of courses, and were flexible on what constituted 'required' courses.

again, let me reiterate, i was free to choose to stop home school at any time. but i could see what my friends were going through at public school, and even as a young kid, i knew what was better for me.