Home Invasion

[chiz45]

I've taken two formal pistol courses, a 1 day thru Progressive Force Concepts (www.pfctraining.com) and the 2 day 'Surgical Speed Shooting' with Andy Stanford/Options for Personal Security (www.opstraining.com). Both were excellent. Prior to these courses, one concept that I had been previously taught was the '2 body, 1 head,' with a slight pause for review after your initial double tap. Some instructors goes as far as to teach you to lower your weapon (off target, losing sight picture) for a quick scan. Andy varied his strings from 3 shots to full mag dumps (Glock 19=15 rounds for me). Fixating on the magic double tap to get the job done would cause some problems IMO. I like to practice with 2-3 targets, 1 round each and back, with nice, even sweeps

 

[Torch]

What happened to mrcalm7?

He was looking for somebody who has been through exactly what I've been through. His quote, "What I'm really trying to get at is, do we really have to be so prepared for a what if scenario? Are we doing ourselves justice by being armed to the teeth?".

I provide him with a real life story and his response is... ummm, you can go ahead and kill this thread if you want to. Gee, didn't try to cause a raucaus...

Come on, mrcalm7, time to answer your own question. You tell me whether we need to be 'armed to the teeth'. What's your take?

 

[mrcalm7]

Okay Torch

In your personal home invasion you said:

Without any warning both the front and back doors of the townhome were busted in (they were locked) and 8 individuals (6 men and 2 women) armed with sawed off shotguns and handguns basically invaded our home. There was zero reaction time and zero warning. Sometimes the BGs just have the drop on people. This was one of those times.

So the reaction time wasn't there unless you had a gun with over 15 rounds and extra clips. If you a gun on you at the time of their entrance, maybe you could have reacted. Also, 8 against 1, I don't like those odds. Still Assad Myoob talks about taking up the "Alamo" defense in your home for any illegal entrance. He cites how 100 men held off 3,000 for several days.

Personally, I think being armed to the teeth is a good thing, given all of the attacks that have been cited on this thread and the violence in America today. We are a country that was founded bythe gun, and guns continue to be a everyday threat and deterrant in our society. After reading the response to this thread, I am going to purchase a Ruger SP101 (.357 big baby snub) and keep it on me in my home, at all times.

Thanks for your help,

Mr. Calm

 

[Rickstir]

I don't know many answers, I can't predict the future, and I am not armed to the teeth. I only have a 9mm in the headboard or on my hip. An AK-47 in the bedroom along with a 16 gauge shotgun. I feel naked.

 

[jacketch]

My oldest son is a college senior, an engineering major, and he lived off campus in a large house in an area of the town near the university. It was typical of the areas around many urban unversities. There were four other students who lived in the house with him.

One night he went to a friends place for a study group and then went home at about 10:00pm. When he walked into the house he was thrown to the floor. Ten minutes earlier, two men had knocked on the door and when it was opened by one of the other residents, they pulled guns and forced their way in. They rounded up the four occcupants and started to demand to know where the drugs and guns were. After they roughed up the frightened students, three males and one female, my son showed up and soon after another friend also stopped by. One of the BG's had what looked like a .45, the other had what appeared to be a 9mm. The invaders continued to demand guns and drugs and singled out several of the students to threaten with death if they didn't get them. When the terrified students could not give them what they wanted (this about half an hour after they first burst in), they herded them into the bathroom and one of the BG's started to discuss shooting them. This went on for about ten minutes. The scumbags then took everyones wallet and all the electronic equipment and anything else of value and left.The police were immediately called and soon the place was swarming with LEO's.Thank God that no one was killed or seriously injured.

My son, along with the other residents, has moved to a different area near the campus.

I have not gotten over this all and my wife, bless her, has taken the news as well as can be expected. This is not the first time these BG's have done this (in one case they raped two coeds and pistol whipped a student) and hopefully the authorities will catch them soon.

 

[Dusty Miller]

I've already decided that when the home invasion happens I'm going to be sitting on the thunder bucket with my pants around my ankles!! The .357 mag in the family room and the .45 ACP in the bedroom are going to be out of reach! IF, however, they are foolish enough to hit the front door whilst I'm withing reach of either weapon then I'm going to do my best James Bond imitation and just blast'm to kingdom come!! I'll teach them there home invade'n sombitches a thing or two! Who the hell are we kidd'n here, ourselves? Perpetual vigilince is for the utterly paranoid. If we are LUCKY, we may be able to put up a spirited defence. In all likelihood they'll have the element of surprise on their side and it'll all be over before we have a chance to say "HUH? WHUT?" Your perimiter defense is actually more important than your guns. Just how tough IS your front door? Think about it, if they can't get in...................................

 

[Jeff Gonzales]

Good comments

Dusty,

Good comments...

 

[Quartus]

That's why I don't like nice pretty windows by the front door. But I AM fond of industrial steel doors, painted to match the rest of the decor. Nice raised wood panel doors? THe kind where the recessed part of the design is maybe a half inch thick?

No thanks.

Hurricane glass is nice, too.

 

[LAK]

I agree that the achilles' heel of defending against an organized invasion is the perimeter. Hardened doors/frames (in depth in some areas) and windows etc. This and maintaining condition yellow when investigating visitors, going out, and coming in. A prepared householder or family is then in the position to repel just about any common break-in, and is still in a strong position against an organized and equipped invasion in numbers.

Doors and windows do not have to be inpenetrable - but tough enough to delay even heavy tools (large levering bars and rams etc) and create alot of noise. Properly anchored steel door frames, steel doors, etc. In addition to storm windows, steel shutters painted or faced with wood are a versatile feature too and need not cost a fortune.

A good dog is an asset and may give an early warning. If you have a rural dwelling there are few creatures more vigilant - and noisy when disturbed by any unfamiliar thing - than domestic geese.

Apartments are a more difficult proposition. But even these, with some careful study and ingenuity, can be made alittle less vulnerable to a rapid forced entry, and perhaps a less than favorable place for a herd to come rushing through unimpeded.

In all I think the odds are greatly in favor of the householder(s) providing there is careful attention to the perimeter, planning, developement of the necessary skills, the right tools, and the habitual state of condition yellow when applicable. All this may amount to very little though if you get taken by surprize. This should be avoided at all costs.

 

[Quartus]

If you have a rural dwelling there are few creatures more vigilant - and noisy when disturbed by any unfamiliar thing - than domestic geese.

Boy, you got that right! And they can be nasty, too.

 

[johnnymenudo]

Two occasion where it came close.

1) 14 years old - home alone - parents gone for the weekend -brother left for work. 4 am. Two perps tried to crowbar the back door to my house. Neighbors dog went nuts, neighbor saw two large men run thru my yard and jump the back fence. One was carrying what appeared to be a sawed off shotgun.

2) 18 years old - summer before I start college. Neighbors' homes being broken into at an alarming rate. Of the dozen or so houses in my immediate neighborhood, 6 broken into. Guns, cash, and jewlery stolen. Parents gone for the weekend. Me home alone. Sitting at an arcade (early 80's) talking to some neighborhood kids about the break ins. I tell them I am sleeping with a my dads 12 gauge. 3 more houses broken into that week. Finally catch the perp. Turns out to be the grandchild of one of neighbors visiting for the summer - one of the kids I had befriended and was talking to at the arcade. Turns out he had escaped from psych facility and ran off to hide with grandparents. Turns out that at the age of 16 he had already commited some petty thefts, home invasions, and some animal mutilations. He was put in the psych facility for these things as well as tying up a friends little brother and cutting off a finger with a pruning scissors. Not a nice person.

SO.... it can happen to anyone at anytime. The neighborhood was middle class south side Chicago. Not a bad place by any stretch.

JM

 

[mrcalm7]

Remote Video Surveillance

I was having a beer with a cop friend of mine last night and evidently he installs very small remote cameras, mostly in PD's. I asked him about putting one or two outside my home. He said do you want a wireless, or do you want it motion activated where it dials you up remotely. The newer tech stuff is getting truly sophisticated.

Let me say this. I don't condone alarm systems. I think they give people a false sense of security. When the alarm goes off, you know someone has either entered or tried to enter. At that point you are relying on the central station to call and ask, are you okay? That is if you're hooked into one. Then you wait helplessly until somebody shows up. No thanks. I'll fight it out on my terms.

I'd much rather rely on a big-ass fido that is a working dog breed, (Alsatian, Rottweiler, Bouvier des Flandres). Sporting dogs (retrievers, hounds, shorthairs) are too unreliable in the guarding/attack task. A working dog makes a much better detterant and will protect you with his life. But remember there is a certain amount of training this dog requires to make it effective. I also think the perimeter defense notion is a must. Hardened front and rear entrances. Low cut hedges, without any entry into the house blocked from view. The remote camera is intriguing to me because it can catch someone casing your home when you are away, or someone breaking in when you are away. An alarm will never stop someone, just speed up their clock, which for the most part they are on anyways.

Keeping a loaded handgun available is the second level detterant that I would rely on with my life. And being proficient in using that weapon should go without saying. Imagine picking up a gun that you are unfamiliar with at the time of a crisis. You are fighting your fight or flee instinct and now you are confronted with figuring out where the safety is at your moment of need. Now thanks. Also, my wife and oldest son have to put their time in at the range. If I get offed along with the dog, what will happen to them? I don't want to dwell on that so I'd rather they could fight like wolverines instead of lambs.

The handgun as was pointed out by experts on this board and document by Ayoob Massad in his studies on gunfights, is a more versatile weapon in your home. "What's the best home defense gun?" is a question being asked on other threads. The answer is quite simple, anyone that you can use deadly accuracy.

 

[gburner]

Excellent advice, Mrcalm...good post!

BTW....big-assed fido would make a great band name.

 

[krept]

well, i'm not going to get into a big argument about this

i see the alarm as but one layer in a system of defenses. just like the physical weapon, the tool.

if you rely on any layer too much (dog, gun, alarm, reinforced door, po po, etc) this can be a calamity. Such is the reason for layering.

cheers

 

[dfaugh]

Without getting into alot of detailed opinions

I live in semi-rural neighborhood that most would consider very "safe". Rarely lock the doors at it would be pointless, too many easily accessible glass windows/doors (which are hidden from view in almost all directions. Almost every house around me has been burgled, some multiple times (almost assuredly by one of the neighborhood kids and his buddies--not a home invasion type scenario). I work from home as a computer consultant, and have, among other things, a lot of valuable computer equipment around, which is certainly well know to these particular JDs.
BUT, also well known is the fact that I have 5 German Shepherds, plenty of guns, and everyone in the house is "firearms capable". Interestingly I'm the only one that's never been "hit". So, at least in this instance (but probably not much help in a "random" Home invasion) knowing I have the guns (and WILL use them) is as good as having an alarm system.
I did, I THINK, have a possible attempt...this time by my ex-girlfriends psychotic ex-boyfriend (or one of his buddies)...Whoever it was had 2 rude surprises...They tried to climb over (and broke a couple pieces) of my fencing (most of which is 6 foot stockade, but only 4 feet in one area near the house)...First surprise was that on the other side of "short" fence is the stairwell to my walkout basement...for a total drop of 10 feet...Second was the German Shepherd I'd left outside (commonly referred to as "the lunatic dog from hell") which I'd left outside, in expectation he'd probably do something stupid sooner or later...She's my "stealth" dog in that she rarely barks...at least not until its wayyyyyy too late.

 

[Quartus]

she rarely barks...at least not until its wayyyyyy too late.

Goood doggie!

They tried to climb over (and broke a couple pieces) of my fencing (most of which is 6 foot stockade,

My idea of good fencing has the top rail considerably lower than is customary. I like it a good 2 feet below the top of the fence. Makes the fence more likely to break than to support someone climbing over. Being on top of a fence when it breaks is NOT conducive to silence OR health.