Home Invasion

I used to live in a nice neighborhood growing up with my mother during high school. I thought that this neighborhood was the kind where you could leave your doors unlocked during the day. I had stayed home sick because of a bad cold that turned into pnemonia. I was only 15, so there were no cars in the driveway. After lunch, I climbed the stairs to go lay down and watch tv in my room. When my foot hit the top of the landing, I heard the front door open. I knew it was the front door because it was Christmas time and my mom would always put bells on the front door knob. My sister was at school, my mom and stepdad were at work and I had just talked to them on the phone and knew neither was coming home in the next few minutes.

I crept into my room to retrieve my 870. My mother wouldn't let me keep any ammo in the house, so the boom stick was completely dry. I walked out to the landing, racked the pump even though it was empty and yelled, "I've been bored all morning, wanna play?" I heard a few expletives and some hurried footsteps through the kitchen as I went down the stairs. As I rounded the hall I could see the turd fussing with the back door in the sun room because the knob's lock was very tricky.

I gave the police his description but he was never found. After my mom came rushing home from work, talked to the police, spent the next hour or two hugging me while crying, she took me out to the local sporting goods store and bought me some buckshot and sabot slugs (using my advice on ammo selection). The old boom stick was never left empty after that encounter and mom was an instant convert.

Now, the neighborhood has a bunch of houses that the owners rent out to people. Some of the new renting neighbors look a little shady. Yards aren't mowed as often as they should be. There are more junk cars in driveways. Blue strobe lights flicker more frequently outside houses at night. But one thing has stayed constant, my mom locks her doors now and stays locked and loaded and proficient with her arms. We go to the range together often and she's been steadily becoming a greater shot with my supervision. I'm very comfortable with the thought that she's not under-prepared since I don't live at home anymore.
 
One point that someone brought up. Most people who want to rob your house, will do it when you're not in it. .....Professionals usually choose the daytime when your neighbors are out and about as well.

Yep. It's the amatuers that are dangerous. And they ARE dangerous.


No hard feelings, JoJo. BTW, since I'm an engineer I don't sweat the IP thing. There are ways to deal with it. ;)


Hey, if it'll make you feel better, I'll go ahead and flame you:
flame.gif


:D
 
Don't you guys feel like your being suckered in by a TROLL?

Personally I am reluctant to respond to whimsical "what if" post with political undertones, especially if the poster is a newbie. We really have no idea what he's really about. He could be an agent for HCI trying to gain an insight on our thinking to aid a political attack.

So... in response to MrCalm7, No Comment.
 
...but all the talk about what people keep under their beds for home defense just seems a little much. How often are people breaking into other people's homes with the intent of doing them bodily harm?
Under the bed - no. Handy? Yes. And I don't have an answer for the question - any is too many. And I do the "layered defense" as well - if I've resorted to lethal force police dispatch will have the whole thing on their "911" tape, and there will be no doubt that I exhausted all lesser means of defense first.
 
not me

It's not a friend of a friend. It was my friend and I was at the apartment afterwards to help clean up after the PD got what they wanted and help my friend in his recovery.

My friend was an elderly WWII vet living alone in an apartment in San Diego. I was a college student. We worked together at a computer supply distributor. This went down in 1991.

He befriended a single mom working in our shipping and receiving department and frequently let her come over with her baby to make dinner, etc for them. He didn't know she was gang affiliated.

After months of coming over she had become pretty familiar with his 2 bedroom apartment (chasing around a 2 year old and all) and evidently found his gun safe. She also found out he kept a few grand in cash.

One night around midnight, she appeared at his door knocking. It was raining and late. My friend opened the door and was immediately hit on the head with a lead pipe and pushed back into the apartment. Three goons came in (the girl long gone) and beat him to a pulp. He never had time to reach his S&W M-60 in his sweater pocket or get to the 1911 in the kitchen.

After kicking him around some more and making off with VCR's, camera's, etc, they had him open his gun safe at gunpoint. They stole his entire collection including over a dozen old Colt SAA's he was collecting to supplement his retirement.

They left him for dead. He wasn't. Suffered nerve damage to his hands from the beating and his vision is permenently blury as well.

Girl was arrested (and released in 1998). Two of the three goons are dead. One killed by the other in some sort of squabble over the goods. Evidently they squared off with a 1911 and a S&W .22 semi auto. The .22 won! The second was killed in an unrelated incident. The final goon was released from prison shortly before I left San Diego in 2000.

His collection scattered to the winds and periodically, guns are returned from all over the US. Most seem to have wound up in New York of all places.

I'm not sure how to prepare/prevent something like this aside from the obvious point about not letting people you don't know very well come into your home. It's easy to make judgements, but the girl was a coworker he had know for years before she started coming over to his apartment. I had only been at the company for 9 months when this happened, but they had both been there since the later 1980's. It's hard to defend against someone you think you trust.
 
Don't you guys feel like your being suckered in by a TROLL?

Personally I am reluctant to respond to whimsical "what if" post with political undertones, especially if the poster is a newbie. We really have no idea what he's really about. He could be an agent for HCI trying to gain an insight on our thinking to aid a political attack.

So... in response to MrCalm7, No Comment.


Hmmm. There does seem to be some disconnect with the attitudes shown in the opening post of this thread and some posts on other threads.
 
What's a TROLL? Also HCI. TIA (that's Thanks in Advance).

A political attack? Yep, Mike Moore is stopping by tonight. We're discussing our next collaboration. It's about paranoid mouks on message boards that wrap aluminum foil around their heads. Like I was told earlier, get real, NEIL!

If you think I'm some malicious malecontent, just keep going. (I looked up those acronyms.) Believe me, I put it out there for discussion, because 1.) I wanted to know if anyone had experienced a real home invasion. So far several have. And 2.) I was trying to justify my own gun collection/preparation that I've done in my house long before I ever posted here. For people that doubt that, so be it, you made your comments. I didn't come here to start trouble, just participate. I'm sorry that I'm not as Gun correct as some of you folks claim to be. :eek: They just don't give out the manuals in my state.

If you want to see a Troll, try looking up the homepage website of !Lancer!. (Just make sure no small children or dogs are in the room. I almost fell out of my chair.)

One last point, a guy that joined in May is calling me a newbie. Maybe he's the HCI agent looking to infiltrate you. What could be a better cover? First he gains your confidence by misdirecting you, then he gets you to blab, then Katie Couric and the Brady's are at your front door calling you a bad person, gun owner.

Believe what you want, it's a free country. That's if it's okay with Pa.Frank who lives in New Jersey.

- Jojo

P.S.
Hmmm. There does seem to be some disconnect with the attitudes shown in the opening post of this thread and some posts on other threads.
Just curious, are you a physician or do you just play one on TV? Are you referring to my post on breaking in hiking boots? :confused:
 
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Mrcalm7,

Things like home invasions are weighed by many people more on the level of consequences as opposed to risk. In other words, a home invasion is probably a lower risk in terms of likelyhood than say having your car burgled - but the possible consequences of the former are much higher.

Some home invasions seem to involve very particular motives - like theft. But anyone with such singular motives will likely choose a target that is unoccupied. So when an individual or group target an occupied home the possibility of serious assaults or death are pretty obvious.

While there are notorious examples nationwide, not all if many actually make national news. I recall a particularly awful example in Michigan that was reported a year or two ago in which several young women were subjected to some real barbarian behaviour of which there was one survivor.

For me it is very simple; the attitude, planning and maintaining of the protection of my household is a very minor pain to bear. Especially compared to the possibility of having some awful experience during which the prevailing sensation was that of being helpless - and having to live with it in hindsight.
 
No, I personally have never been the subject of a home or business invasion. My late friend, Zane Wilson, Columbus, Ohio, cannot say that. Two minority perps waltzed into his "Zane's Gun Rack" store, whipped out illegally carried weapons, shot his two dobermans, and shot him while robbing the place.

His shop had a door alarm, in a very nice neighborhood, and I could go on, . . . but the idea is we never know when trouble will come sticking it's ugly head up. If we had been more ready Dec 7, 1941, . . . if we had been more ready Sept 11, 2001, . . . ad infinitim, ad nauseum.

One can be ready, 1911 on the night stand, . . . no dog (wife allergic), no cops (10 miles to nearest sheriff), no alarm (you'ld be dead in Ohio if you waited for the alarm co. to dispatch the legal beagles), . . . or one can trust that your neighbor's house & belongings are more appealing.

I think I'll keep my 1911 close.
May God bless,
Dwight
 
Thanks Dwight. If I didn't have kids, I'd keep mine out in the open. And if I was in a rural setting like yours, I'd take it out every night and lock it up in the morning. With the dog (he better friggin wake me), I can get to mine in less than 6 seconds. Give me another 15 and I could get some heavier firepower.

I read a post on another thread by the moderater, who is a Navy Seal. He made a point about having a hand free if you have to carry someone. Plus, Massad Ayob talks about how easy it is for any perp to take a long gun away from someone. Searching, which both the Seal and Ayob mention, is much easier with a handgun as opposed to a long gun. You can hold your Sure Fire flashlight in one hand.

Good luck and happy hunting,

Jojo Calm
 
I don't know if you can call it a home invasion because the perp never got into the house, but something weird happened to my brother a few weeks ago.

I was borrowing his car because mine broke down in the parking lot at my work. I have a nice brother. He was stuck at home that day. But, he works at home anyway, so it wasn't a real issue for him. His wife was driving home from dropping the kids off at a friends. She was talking to someone on her cell phone and not paying attention to the fact that she was being followed.

She pulled into the garage and kept talking on her cell phone while in the van. My brother came out of the house into the garage just as a white Chevy S-10 came to a screetching halt in their driveway. This alarmed my brother and he walked out into the driveway to see WTF was going on.

The driver leaped out of his car and made a mad dash toward the garage where my sister in law still sat in her darn mini van, talking on her darn cell phone, oblivious as to what was happening around her.

The mystery man stopped dead in his tracks upon noticing my brother. He made excuses as to why he was in my brother's driveway. He asked if my brother needed any "uh...uh...uh...WORK DONE....I'm...just checking the neighborhood" as he studdered, trying to think of something CYA to say. My brother said, "No" firmly. The guy took off and didn't bother to visit any other house to see if they needed "work" done.

My idiot brother, whom I love dearly, only got a vehicle description and failed to get a plate. He said he didn't think anything of it until after it had happened. If he wasn't so generous, and significantly bigger than me, I'd kick his butt. I gave both him and his wife a serious tongue lashing about situational awareness. It could have been ugly. I bet that SOB spotted his wife out driving around, knew she was oblivious while on the phone, and followed her home to rob her, or worse (she's a looker).

I arrived with his vehicle probably 10 minutes after the incident. I carry, everywhere and any time I can. I was cocked and locked that day. Even if things went differently, I doubt that SOB would have still been around. 10 min is a long time.

He has kids and he's really skiddish about guns in his house, so is his wife. Any tips about warming them up to a warm gun would be helpful.
 
Mr.Calm; I have to admit your posts are suspicious.Some statements you make really do not usually come from pro-gun people,but then some gun owners believe in the assault weapons ban,and handgun bans,so it is possible your legit.If your looking for crime statistics they are readily available with very little effort in a search on-line.Trying to find out how many of us have experienced a home invasion isn't a good reasoning on how prepared you should be.Be prepared or don't,the choice is yours.Hopefully,you will be one of the people who never become a crime victim.Insurance for your house,car,your choice.Ya take your chances.Would'nt it be great if we all knew in advance if we were about to be a crime victim?
 
Sorry, I just saw this. I have 'experienced' one

This is an edited version of what I experienced. I posted this on thehighroad last September in response to a question regarding defending against a home invasion. My screen name on THR is MaterDei.

"I and my family were victims of a home invasion in 1991. I had just returned to the US from a tour of duty in Germany. Because my personal belongings had not cleared customs my handguns, a CZ-75 and a CZ-50, were not available to me.

We were living in a townhome at the time in Houston, basically it was a big two story apartment with units on either side. It was about 9 pm on a weekend night. My wife, my inlaws, 3 children and I were at home. We had just finished eating and were cleaning up. Without any warning both the front and back doors of the townhome were busted in (they were locked) and 8 individuals (6 men and 2 women) armed with sawed off shotguns and handguns basically invaded our home. There was zero reaction time and zero warning. Sometimes the BGs just have the drop on people. This was one of those times.

While I was pinned to the floor, literally with a shotgun to my temple (I had a nice round scab the exact size of a 12 GA barrel on the side of my face for about a month), the BGs, a gang actually, ransacked my home stealing what little valuables I had at the time, sexually assaulted my wife and butt stroked my father-in-law a few times (he was hospitalized for a day due to some internal bleeding). The BGs were in our home for about 20 minutes. A neighbor called 911 when he heard what was happening (a lot of yelling, etc.). The police arrived 5 minutes after the BGs had gone.

Lessons learned.

Does this mean that I don't believe that one should prepare for one or more bad guys busting into one's home? HELL NO. I realize that what happened to us was not typical and that more often then not, with a good home invasion plan in place, proper planning makes perfect sense and could help avert a tradegy. We were not prepared (no warning, doors not 'hardened', etc.) and are very fortunate that nobody was killed.

The reason I'm telling my story is try to suggest that a good home invasion defense plan should include planning for how you would react in the event that you won't be able to execute plan A or plan B. How will you react if you don't have time to get to a weapon? How would you react if you awoke with a BG standing at the foot of your bed with a weapon trained on you? How should your family members react and what should they do? etc. Most of the planning is simply mental excercises and conditioning but I think they are important.

Good luck in your planning. Pray that you never need to execute it."
 
Play nice!

This is just a friendly reminder to play nice. We have PM and email address for a reason, if you have a dispute that could be miscontruided then take it to those formats mentioned.

This thread has gotten off topic, so if it doesn't come back on line it goes off line.

Later,
 
Torch, that is a terrifying story. From your description, it doesn't sound like ANYONE could have responded successfully to that arrangement, and that level of planning. I hope everything is ok with you and your family.

I've worked on a few cases that involved Home Invasion, and there does appear to be two different 'styles--' those designed strictly for property, and those where the invaders intend to confront people. They can be differentiated by the perps' reactions--when someone answers, they run away.

A VERY popular means of supplementing income has been to go mid day, knock on a door for a minute or so, to determine if someone is home. If not, the door is kicked in, and the invaders--usually no less than 2--enter, and start ransacking. Access can be gained by a doggie door. i've even seen where someone will play at the gate, drawing the dog out; his partner kicks in the door, and blocks the doggie door from the inside of the house, allowing them to work freely. (Obviously, these last two had some knowledge of the home and people that lived there).

I have not seen a case yet where the home owner had an active, working alarm, so i can't comment as to how effective that is. One of the local robbery detectives said an alarm, even if it's not hooked up to a monitoring service, has worked as a good deterrent--most of the 'unmotivated' folks will hear it, and bolt.

The second, and more terrifying group, are those that kick in doors anticipating contact. The worse ones i've seen were committed by a crew of 4-5 men, one 5 days out of prison. He recruited his 17 year old son to join him! Essentially, these men would look for lots of Latinos, wait til a Friday night, and take a single shotgun and some knives. Their belief was that these victims did not use banks, and had a lot of cash and jewelry on hand. Their MO was to knock on the door; as it opened, they would kick it in, and drag everyone to the floor. They would be secured with blankets, and simple fear. Once everyone was corralled, they were taken to the bathroom, and the apartment was ransacked. There was even a gun in the house, a POS .25, that the thugs demanded from the resident. It was turned over to them, loaded. The occupants were removed one at a time, and searched. In one of the many cases, two women were gang raped.

Three of these men are now in prison serving life terms. One, the ONLY who was ID'ed as participating in the sexual assault, was found not guilty--the victim failed to show at the time of trial.

I am talking about 8 cases, and mentioning only pertinent facts from each of them. In only one of these cases did the homeowner defend himself--he and his wife were home, and the front door kicks in. They retreat to their bedroom, and lock the door. Wife calls 911, husband readies his SIG226. someone grabs the door knob, he puts two through the door. In the ensuing chaos, he manages to shoot three of them, none fatally. One is caught at the scene, the other two later at hospitals.

The violent group above made me switch from a Kimber Compact CDP 1911 to a Glock 19. Many o' thread talk about needing only 1 or 2 rounds to end a fight; these cases made me think otherwise. These two guns are very comparable in size and weight, but 7+1 versus 14+1 (i don't even consider having time to reload)? the choice was clear.
 
Thanks Jeff

Looks like it is getting back on topic now. Hope it continues

Just for the record, I'm a proud gun owner of various pump, single action, bolt action and semi automatic weaponry. I also have a selection of 18th Century black powder reproduction firelocks that I use in my hobby of Revolutionary War Reenacting. In this hobby my regiment potraits the 4th Light Continental Dragoons, a mounted calavry unit. And yes I also own and ride a horse to complete the deal. So I do possess many blades, including sabers, boot knives, bayonettes, 18th C. cullodens, you name it. You can view us at www.4thdragoons.com for those interested in what we do.

I want to apologize for any distraction this thread has caused. I'll go back to reading for a while.
 
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Many o' thread talk about needing only 1 or 2 rounds to end a fight; these cases made me think otherwise.


Many an idiot, in my book. What you don't know can hurt you.

What you think you know that isn't true can hurt you even worse.
 
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