Home defense rounds

Agreed Minor.One more thing i need to point out,The difference between leather and a shirt in like the difference between steel and sheetrock.
Leather is a very,very tough material. I watched a show once CSI i beleaive(not sure if the show is credibal or not).But they put a leather jacket on a maniquine and had a elderly lady try to stab it with a knife. With all her might she could not make the knife sink in. This is why leather is used in Motorcycle jackets,shoes,ect,ect, It is tough and saves the body in certain cases from damage. So i put to you any one not wearing a leather jacket getting hit by birdshot at 10 feet or less,Lets just say he won't be an issue a second time to any one else. Leather is the whole issue in this senario.
More from people on this forum i have read,,A 45 ACP at 25 yards will sometimes not penitrate a leather jacket, True or not i could not tell you.
 
Agreed Minor.One more thing i need to point out,The difference between leather and a shirt in like the difference between steel and sheetrock. Leather is a very,very tough material.
Click to expand...

There are all sorts of leathers and thicknesses. You can't classify leather singly anymore than you can classify the shooting skills of all shooters as being superb. There are good shooters and bad, fast and slow.

I watched a show once CSI i beleaive(not sure if the show is credibal or not).
Click to expand...
CSI isn't real. It is a fictional show. CSI will tell you stuff about forensics like Call of Duty will teach you about firearms and lethality.

But they put a leather jacket on a maniquine and had a elderly lady try to stab it with a knife. With all her might she could not make the knife sink in.
Click to expand...

She could not make it sink in because that is what the script said, not because she wasn't physically capable. There is a lot more penetrative power at the point of a knife from an old lady than from an individual birdshot pellet.

This is why leather is used in Motorcycle jackets,shoes,ect,ect, It is tough and saves the body in certain cases from damage.
Click to expand...

Yes, some leathers are very good for protecting the body from abrasion damage, aka road rash, but certainly not all leathers.

More from people on this forum i have read,,A 45 ACP at 25 yards will sometimes not penitrate a leather jacket, True or not i could not tell you.
Click to expand...

While I am sure it may have happened, I am also sure that there have been instances where rifle rounds didn't penetrate somebody's leather something somewhere, but that doesn't mean leather is good ballistic protection.
 
All true Double.Which just furthers my point,Any one thinking birdshot from a shotgun at 6 or 8 feet with no jacket is not leathal is just fooling themselfs.
 
The problem is that you don't know what your assailant will be wearing. And also, you have to penetrate not only his clothing, but his sternum, ribs, or shull. Bird shot, is not a good HD load.
 
Come on people, Im not going to get dragged into this any farther. I use a 45 with a 300 gn manstopper custom made bullet. Facts are facts. I shoot you with a 12 gauge at 6 feet with birdshot,YOU ARE~DEAD,,No if ands or buts about it. Letsget real here ok. It is not something i would choose to use in the house,but that don't change the facts.
 
6 feet is about the aveage height of a man. What happens at 20 - 30 feet (not an unusual distance in a house)? Do you feel as confident?
 
What happens at 20 - 30 feet (not an unusual distance in a house)?

I ask you again do you live in a mansion? 20 to 30 feet..Step it out once.Ya maybe if he is up against the wall on one side of house and you are up against the other. Most likley sanerio is probebly 10 feet or less. At entrance to bedroom,at bottom of steps, at end of hallway,ect,ect. At 20 to 30 feet you better have a very lagit reason for shooting him.Unless he also has a gun you might find yourself in the klinker. With a knife or bat or such,Your plea of my life was in iminate danger is going down the toilet along with your chances of not going to jail. Look in my humble opinion a shot gun is a poor choice for self defense in the first place. Long barrel with to many restrictions in a house to make a fast and clean sweep for aiming. To much potential for collatral damage. I would hate to be stuck in a hallway with one coming from behind and one from in front. Each to their own i guess.
 
Don't live in a mansion, but do have a hallway that extends beyond 20'. And a shotgun is a superb home defense firearm. It could easily be the best there is. In my humble opinion, it isn't the idea of a wide pattern, but rather the payload. Where a handgun may be a fight stopper, a shotgun IS a fight stopper.
 
At 20 to 30 feet you better have a very lagit reason for shooting him.Unless he also has a gun you might find yourself in the klinker. With a knife or bat or such,Your plea of my life was in iminate danger is going down the toilet along with your chances of not going to jail.
Click to expand...

Tueller Drill

A knife or bat are lethal weapons. 21 feet puts that weapon roughly a second and a half from killing you.
 
Nope, 12 yards is the longest concievable shot I could take inside my home.

Sorry Rant,i think someone else posted that not you.
 
Sorry to disagree with you rant..In my class we were taught 14 feet or less or your in trouble with the law.
Click to expand...

Which class was this where the instructor is trying to get his students killed? Seriously, the instructor needs to re-evaluate what he's teaching.
 
That was an actual NRA Certified class i took. Dealing with the laws of self defense and when it is permitable to use deadly force. If you check for yourself ,,because someone breaks into your house DOES NOT give you the right to kill him. You can do no harm to him unless you feel your life is in iminate danger(and the proof of burden will be on you).Not him.
 
I am far from an expert.

Do I believe being shot with bird shot at 6-15 feet is pretty lethal?

sure, but it would depend on a few factors (layers, shot placement, etc)

Do I believe #4 heavy shot, or #3 buck shot is more lethal in HD situations
at 6-15 feet? Yes. Regardless of layers, but shot placement very key

I do not have to worry about 'overpenetration' as it relates to bystanders or innocents.
 
That was an actual NRA Certified class i took. Dealing with the laws of self defense and when it is permitable to use deadly force. If you check for yourself ,,because someone breaks into your house DOES NOT give you the right to kill him. You can do no harm to him unless you feel your life is in iminate danger(and the proof of burden will be on you).Not him.
Click to expand...

It varies by state. Some states, you absolutely have the right to use deadly force against someone who has broken into your occupied dwelling. Some states you have the right to use deadly force to prevent forcible entry into your occupied dwelling if you believe the person intends to commit a felony therein (NC is one of those and breaking into an occupied dwelling in NC is a felony, so.........). Which means that yes if someone is kicking my door in in NC I do not have to wait until they are successful to open fire.


But that's not what we were talking about......what we were talking about is 14 feet and a knife/bat wielding attacker...........Let's get back to that......

To say that a knife wielding assailant had better be at maximum 14 feet away from you before you defend yourself is quite silly, given the accepted and repeatedly proven fact that an average person can close 21 feet in a second and a half. About the same time it takes the average person to clear leather and fire. A man standing 21 feet away from you with a knife or a ball bat, with ill intentions toward you, is a real and credible threat. If your instructor is teaching his students that their shoot/no shoot line is to be drawn at 14 feet and no farther, then he is teaching nonsense IMO.
 
And please don't take that as personal or meant to insult, it is not. It is meant to hopefully inform and get you to seek additional information beyond the (in my opinion) mis-information which you were taught by your instructor.
 
Did not take it personnely(thanks) I believe what instructor meant ,was gun already drawn.Also we were told 1 second,they figured is 14 or 15 feet.
Yes i give you laws change from state to state. I will have to check another source for info.One would (want to ) beleive what they are teaching any how.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top