Home Defense Rifle

44 amp's answer

First of all home defence will in all liklihood be CQB inside the home.

My choice is a very reliable M-1 carbine. With a handgun if you extend your arms in a classic posture to engage a threat, the difference in length will only be a couple inches than a shouldered carbine. So the length argument is a moot point.

The kenitic energy of a .30 cal inside 50 feet is about the same as a .357 magnum at the muzzle. So no power point conflict.

I keep two locked and loaded 30 rnd mags clipped together at or near the door. So I have 4 times as much ammo as any modern handgun upon demand. You will need every advantage when the time comes.

I have known people including police officers who would not be proficient with a handgun if they had the time and 10,000 rnds to practice.

Some people even under a little stress will not be able to engage a threat because of they cannot answer that age old question.

"ARE YOU PREPARED TO TAKE A LIFE THIS INSTANT???"

JIMSPD9
 
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A shotgun is usually considered the best HD weapon. You can buy a good pump action shotgun for under $200 at Walmart. They sell NEF Pardner Pump shotguns, which are essentially clones of the Remington 870 on they're made in China under contract from Remington. They were originally another stolen American design built by Norinco. Apparently Remington thought it was better to join them instead of trying to beat them.

At any rate they are very good shotguns for HD and I've seen them under $180 actually and that was a 12 ga.. A 20 ga. is good but a 12 ga. is better. For one thing you have a much wider selection of shells for a 12 ga. including low recoil shells. It's impossible to find buckshot bigger than #3 for 20 ga. shotguns and you do want to use buckshot, not birdshot.

A pump shotgun can be operated quickly with practice. Practice is essential for any gun you want to use for any kind of defense. If you don't know your weapon someone is liable to take it from you and use it on you.

All weapons do penetrate and sometimes they over-penetrate. If they didn't penetrate they would be useless.

Also you really need to be sure you want a HD firearm because it sounds like you're iffy about it. You don't want to hesitate if you pull a gun. You should never pull a gun unless you are ready, willing and able to use it. If you second guess yourself you could end up dead quickly if you really are dealing with gang bangers.

A pump shotgun can be loaded as your shooting. After every shot you can quickly load another in the tube. This gives you a good way to make your capacity higher. Or you could just buy a shotgun with a mag extension that came from the factory or was added by a former user. I have a shotgun loaded with 7 shells plus I have 5 more on a butt cuff so they are ready to be loaded quickly. That's a lot of shooting and you will rarely need to shoot that often. If you need to shoot more than that you will probably need someone else to shoot with you.
 
Home Defense Rifle *Indoors* = 12 gauge shotgun.

If you're truly in a home defense situation, you don't need to worry about weapon weight or recoil, because you're going to be hopped up on adrenaline anyways.

Home Defense Rifle *Outdoors* = Depends where you live

Again, could be the shotgun with some #00 buckshot...unless you live on the far-reaching plains of Kansas, and then it gets a little more long range, doesn't it?
 
The thing about shooting a rifle outdoors at a target a long way off is that the police are going to inspect and disect every thing you've ever said or done. If the person isn't an immediate threat chances are you will be charged with manslaughter or worse. It depends on the state of course. States like Texas and Kentucky have much more liberal definitions of what the castle doctrine should be. But I'm certainly no lawyer. You should check out any firearms laws for where you live.
 
Jeff56, one would think that if a person is engaging a target at distance, it's because the target is aggressing with a firearm.

Remember, if the bad guy is in range, so are you. It's one of Murphy's Laws of Armed Combat; goes along with "Tracers work both ways," and "No plan survives contact with the enemy."

Now, if one shoots an unarmed burglar, as he is leaving the property, especially with a rifle, then one is in deep dookie.
 
First, and I mean no offense, but I am personally confused about your stigma towards handguns. You're okay with a carbine, what the liberal media would call an "assault rifle," but handguns are a step too far? I would stongly urge you to reconsider this viewpoint on handguns. They can be great for the close quarters of a home or building, and are quick to arm yourself with.

That said I would think a 12 ga shotgun would work well for your needs. If you can, try to find one with an extended tube so you can load more shells.

However, you did say that you work like to utilize your .223 stockpile. In which case I would say a Mini-14 could be perfect for you. Also since you don't like the idea of a handgun, maybe you wouldn't want a "dangerous" looking AR-15. Mini-14s can come with a wooden stock so it looks more like a "non-threatening" hunting rifle. Also they are generally cheaper than AR-15s. They are very comfortable to shoot (more so that AR-15s in my opinion).
 
Yeah, you can even get a Mini-14 "Ranch Rifle", which has wood stocks and just sounds wholesome. If you worry about names, image, etc.

However, as I see it, the advantage the carbine has over the handgun is not one of image, but of effectiveness. In general, carbines fire more effective rounds in terms of stopping power, penetration (of body armor as opposed to drywall in a 5.56), and range. Carbines are easier to shoot in terms of both accuracy and recoil control. Carbines aren't effectively banned in some places, as handguns are, despite Heller and MacDonald.

The advantage to the carbine can go right out the window, though, if the user decides to try some amateur house-clearing. Same goes for the shotgun. Long guns are best used in a defensive posture, for HD, as they are harder to maneuver through doorways, easier for the BG to grab, and they almost force the use of weapon-mounted lights - if any.

The advantages to the handgun are that it is most likely to be more accessible, and it is easier to use for maneuvering through the house - which I do NOT recommend, unless you have kids or elderly parents at the wrong end of the house when something happens.

Note: This is yet another reason why careful thought should be given to how the home is organized.
 
@joneeman... I love hand guns. I love every firearm I've ever picked up. I have no prejudices and believe that the right for us each to do as we must to protect ourselves and family is like breathing air... it's free (should be) and it's a human right—forget about civil rights. The hand gun in the home issue is partly driven by my wife's irrational fear, and knowing that these lines she keeps drawing in the sand keep getting crossed. She is ten times the parent I am, she's incredibly tough emotionally, and you should see her dig fence post holes. Irrational yes, but I have to work my angles... I want everyone on my side.

@Skadoosh... I have looked this week at a few AR choices and boy are they expensive. they are way too fashionable for my pocket book right now. Also my comment about legal battles... I know that the .223 will stop the perp/prospectively save my [families] life but will I have to spend thousands fighting a in court a person I put in a wheelchair. Sorry to be so blunt.

@JIMSPD9... I love the idea of the M1 Carbine and have looked at a couple today that were almost in my price range.

@MLeake... when I say "just stand there" I don't mean like Terminator, what I mean is "stand my ground" without getting too Rambo-esque on everyone's ass. I'm very likely to use cover if need be. I know my home like the back of my hand or better. I know it in the dark and actually like right now I'm awake until early hours in the darkened rooms... aware of every click and snap this building makes...

Okay so a few conversations I've had recently over this issue, leaves me with a couple of other Q's... What about Tasers and mace in comparison to firearms? I know it would sound better down the pub to have shot an intruder using a 357 mag revolver as opposed to spraying stingy stuff in his face... but what's the reality? Rhetorical but worth asking.

-SS-

Fellas, thank you for your views... I still keep feeling the cheep, effective, easy way for this to go—most things considered—is a 20 or now maybe a 12 gauge shoot gun.
 
Sweet Shooter, if you know the ins and outs of your house, have a defensive plan, and intend to use cover and concealment... then why did you say you are not into tactics and training?

Because you are discussing tactics.

But on a separate note: It doesn't matter what you shoot an intruder with. If your state does not prohibit civil suits by intruders shot in the home (as is the case in FL, GA, and some other places), then no matter what weapon you use, the BG or his survivors can sue you.

The questions will ultimately come down to this:

1) Were you justified in the use of deadly force?

2) Did you cease using deadly force when the threat ceased?

If the answers to both questions are "yes," then you should be ok.
 
A center fire rifle is a poor choice IMHO, your in a highly populated area and a rifle bullet can easily penetrate walls. A 18" pump shotgun loaded with buck shot would be my number one choice. A 12ga coach gun would work but you are limited to two rounds then a reload is needed. Two rounds of buckshot well end most encounters.
 
madcratebuilder, take a look earlier in the thread at some of the actual penetration test results for 5.56mm. 00 buckshot and most 9mm or bigger handgun rounds will outpenetrate most 5.56mm loads, when it comes to walls. (Not body armor, but drywalls and also organic targets.)
 
Jeff56, one would think that if a person is engaging a target at distance, it's because the target is aggressing with a firearm.
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You're absolutely right and no doubt if someone was firing at you from a distance you should be able to fire back. It's just that often the justice system doesn't see it that way. I totally agree with you especially for people who live in rural areas. There are times when people will shoot at your house from half a mile away. My cousin had someone shoot at his house from probably 500 yards away a couple of years ago probably because he confronted some ATV riders about crossing our farm (he lives there - I'm just a part owner). I couldn't say for sure what happened except there are bullet holes in the house that pretty obviously came from the direction of the hill where the ATV trail is located.

And a rifle is absolutely a must for anyone living in a rural area because of rabid animals among other things. I've had rabid animals here where I live and they are no fun to deal with especially at close range. But it was a shotgun that dispatched the rabid fox that was eating my dog's food. Of course that was pretty close to the house. If I saw an animal that was obviously rabid and it was 100 yards away you can bet I'd pick up a centerfire rifle to deal with it.
 
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