Home Defense Rifle
- Thread starter Sweet Shooter
- Start date
Something, which u already have, is better than nothing. If u already have .223 than buy a small AR you and the Mrs. can play with. But, for less money you really could buy you and your wife a 20 ga. pump action shotgun and a flat of, as was wonderfully said, #4 to #1 buckshot as well as some #8 birdshot to practice at Trap.
New, I'd recommend this as the family 20 ga. (attached). $300? They also make one in marble pink $330?
Good luck.
New, I'd recommend this as the family 20 ga. (attached). $300? They also make one in marble pink $330?
Good luck.
Attachments
First off, I have to wonder why someone would be ok with a rifle (carbine) or shotgun, but not a handgun? I can understand concerns about untrained children and access, but a handgun is easier to store securely than a rifle, obviously, because its smaller.
Second, I am not a great fan of the idea of a "home defense rifle". While a rifle is easier to shoot accurately (from the shoulder) than a handgun, home defense to me, means inside the house. And inside the house, no long arm is as "handy" as a handgun.
Likewise, concerns about penetration through walls are fine, but that really applies only if you miss. Penetration after passing through a body (or body part) is what you ought to be concerned about.
The .223, loaded with varmint type bullets doesn't penetrate much, after striking the initial target. With ball ammo, it penetrates quite a bit more.
Remember, that as a private citizen, YOU are responsible for EVERY round you fire. Go throwing rounds around the neighborhood like they do on TV, and you are putting yourself at serious legal risk. Providing your own coverfire is a bad idea when you don't have some branch of government (Fed, State, City, etc.) standing behind your actions as employer and legal counsel.
Home defense shooting is something that very, very, very rarely involves rifle ranges, and using a rifle (particularly a military looking rifle), even if its all you have, could affect your image, should it go to court.
Get a shotgun (since you have explained handguns are out), and get one that doesn't look all tacti-cool.
Remember that if you actually do have to shoot, you will most likely wind up losing the gun (possibly permanently, depending on your jurisdiction's attitude), and a cheap shotgun in good mechanical shape works just as well as an expensive one.
A low cost (budget) pump, or what I have, a cheap coach gun will repel boarders just as well today as they did a century and more ago.
Second, I am not a great fan of the idea of a "home defense rifle". While a rifle is easier to shoot accurately (from the shoulder) than a handgun, home defense to me, means inside the house. And inside the house, no long arm is as "handy" as a handgun.
Likewise, concerns about penetration through walls are fine, but that really applies only if you miss. Penetration after passing through a body (or body part) is what you ought to be concerned about.
The .223, loaded with varmint type bullets doesn't penetrate much, after striking the initial target. With ball ammo, it penetrates quite a bit more.
Remember, that as a private citizen, YOU are responsible for EVERY round you fire. Go throwing rounds around the neighborhood like they do on TV, and you are putting yourself at serious legal risk. Providing your own coverfire is a bad idea when you don't have some branch of government (Fed, State, City, etc.) standing behind your actions as employer and legal counsel.
Home defense shooting is something that very, very, very rarely involves rifle ranges, and using a rifle (particularly a military looking rifle), even if its all you have, could affect your image, should it go to court.
Get a shotgun (since you have explained handguns are out), and get one that doesn't look all tacti-cool.
Remember that if you actually do have to shoot, you will most likely wind up losing the gun (possibly permanently, depending on your jurisdiction's attitude), and a cheap shotgun in good mechanical shape works just as well as an expensive one.
A low cost (budget) pump, or what I have, a cheap coach gun will repel boarders just as well today as they did a century and more ago.
MrDontPlay
New member
I like the idea of a 9mm rifle for HD like a kel Tec sub 2000, but I have a 12 ga.
thedaddycat
New member
In your situation, since you rule out handguns, it seems like a pump action shotgun would be a good choice. If you have access to both 12 and 20 ga. it might be a good idea to take your wife to the range to determine which one she can handle best. You may not be at home when it is needed...
I worked with a guy who loved the 16 ga. He used to say that it "carried like a 20 but hit like a 12". Thought they are not as common, I'm certain that they are readily available and it would give you another option that splits the difference.
I worked with a guy who loved the 16 ga. He used to say that it "carried like a 20 but hit like a 12". Thought they are not as common, I'm certain that they are readily available and it would give you another option that splits the difference.
do you have a safe or steel gun locker? how about one of those gunvault things for a handgun? i carry my .45 (acp) all day and take it off and put it by the bed at night after the kids are asleep. the "splotchulator" (mossberg 500a 12 gauge pump) stays in the safe unless i feel threatened. why not a handgun with a weapon light and a small safe for documents, cash, jewelry, etc?
Sweet Shooter
New member
All good advice and info. Thank you chaps. If I wanted to go the handgun route then I would and my family would learn to live with what I decide to do. I have considered moving, but for the best part it's relatively safe around here. It is getting worse though and my neighbor who I spoke to at the party pointed out while not bad it probably isn't going to get any better. We have a neighborhood watch scheme in progress but I feel that we need perhaps to organize ourselves better.
The 20ga sounds right to me...
-SS-
The 20ga sounds right to me...
-SS-
mrawesome22
New member
For indoor use a shotgun and buckshot throwing a big 'ol pattern couldn't be beat.
But with a rifle, shotgun, or pistol, get ready for ringing ears!
But with a rifle, shotgun, or pistol, get ready for ringing ears!
It's not enough to think of the firearm only - it must be part of an integrated home defense plan. If it were me, I would be doing a complete risk assessment - ie identifying risks with regard to their severity vs their probabilities and then developing strategies to minimize those risks.
From reading your original post I think you voiced 2 separate concerns ..
1 "I have had several run-ins with gang bangers around our house"
Personally, I would not be confronting persons in the street by myself. You say "I have no problem in confronting them and am not scared of them". While I admire your moral courage, I do not think it is very sensible.
I work in security and we would never go into a situation like that alone. (which everyone in this game has learned from bitter and painful experience). Rather, we would observe and report from a safe position and then gather our resources and make a plan before going in to confront - and then only because it is our duty (and we are being paid
).
The street is a public place so you better be sure of your legal position and as a civilian, there is no (legal) duty to act. Better to let law enforcement deal with it surely.
2 "the increase of break-ins"
The firearm is the last line of defense. Start with the perimeter and work your way inwards. Fences, lights, dog for the yard. Then strengthen outer locks, doors, windows. Finally strengthen the door to one inner room - usually the main bedroom - which contains your firearm and a telephone. The idea is for the outer defenses to give you warning and time to gather the family and barricade yourself while you ring the police and get your firearm ready for possible action if the door breaks open.
I don't think it really matters what firearm you have in that scenario (within limits) although obviously a bolt action .223 is not optimum. Realistically you could probably do more to protect your family by spending money on upgrading your doors and windows and exterior lighting. Having said that, I would be investing in a handgun or shotgun if I were you.
From reading your original post I think you voiced 2 separate concerns ..
1 "I have had several run-ins with gang bangers around our house"
Personally, I would not be confronting persons in the street by myself. You say "I have no problem in confronting them and am not scared of them". While I admire your moral courage, I do not think it is very sensible.
I work in security and we would never go into a situation like that alone. (which everyone in this game has learned from bitter and painful experience). Rather, we would observe and report from a safe position and then gather our resources and make a plan before going in to confront - and then only because it is our duty (and we are being paid
). The street is a public place so you better be sure of your legal position and as a civilian, there is no (legal) duty to act. Better to let law enforcement deal with it surely.
2 "the increase of break-ins"
The firearm is the last line of defense. Start with the perimeter and work your way inwards. Fences, lights, dog for the yard. Then strengthen outer locks, doors, windows. Finally strengthen the door to one inner room - usually the main bedroom - which contains your firearm and a telephone. The idea is for the outer defenses to give you warning and time to gather the family and barricade yourself while you ring the police and get your firearm ready for possible action if the door breaks open.
I don't think it really matters what firearm you have in that scenario (within limits) although obviously a bolt action .223 is not optimum. Realistically you could probably do more to protect your family by spending money on upgrading your doors and windows and exterior lighting. Having said that, I would be investing in a handgun or shotgun if I were you.
The latest issue of Shooting Illustrated, an NRA produced magazine, compares the pattern and distance of various types of buckshot ammunition. Its a good read if you can find it.
This article will probably be posted on their website in a few months if you can't find the magazine. The pattern of spread for buckshot is essentially one inch for every one yard. Past 15 yards, the pattern opens up so that some of your shot will miss a man size target. Fortunately, most people don't have much opportunity to shoot past 15 yards in a home in a SD situation.
This article will probably be posted on their website in a few months if you can't find the magazine. The pattern of spread for buckshot is essentially one inch for every one yard. Past 15 yards, the pattern opens up so that some of your shot will miss a man size target. Fortunately, most people don't have much opportunity to shoot past 15 yards in a home in a SD situation.
Sweet Shooter
New member
Well that sounds well thought out. As a street, us homeowners have an agreement to leave lights on, on our porches. We also clubbed together to get street lamps installed as our street was very dark because of big full trees. The city pays for the electricity but we have to maintain the lamps. This is a shared expense.
My confrontations have not been irrational. I understand the risks. A lot of the effectiveness in "influencing" these kids (telling them to turn it down or bugger off) is having the balls to do so in the first place. One guy wrecked or flowers out front the other day and I shouted at him from the house (I wasn't very polite), I think he was actually a bit embarrassed and perhaps intimidated, which surprised me a bit.
One of the reasons I think we have not been robbed is because there is always someone at our house through the day and night. I have an older son who is 20-something and out of work so he's around here a lot with his mum (thank gawd), but he is not of the opinion that we have a real problem, so is less interested in a house gun (he does understand guns and is safe with firearms). We have some pepper/mace spray around the house at key points that can be "felt" in the dark which is something I suppose. My wife is definitely gun shy and IMO somewhat naive about living in the city.
I'm going to ask around to try to organize something a bit bolder than a neighborhood watch. There's plenty of guys here that are tired of the petty crime, though breaking and entering is not petty... I know. But I wouldn't know what that show of solidarity would or should look like from the street. We would obviously not be in a hurry to break any laws without knowing.
We are also lucky in that there is an elementary school on our subdivision so there is some police presence.
I called police once when I had a crying young woman turn up on my front porch at 3:00 in the morning. She wanted to come in and said she was being followed. It was freezing cold and I was freezing my nads off. I said I would help, and offered to walk her home or call the police, but I was not going to let her in the house right away. She had a bag with her and I could not see what was in it. She didn't want me to call police because of warrants, and my wife talked me out of walking the young woman home. She could not leave because of the guy at the end of the street. In the end I did call the police. They came about three hours later to check everything was okay. The guy had got tired of waiting for her and left, then the young women left a while after. I guess the police wanted to finish their breakfast, it wasn't a 911 call.
I don't want to be in that position again. I'm not sure having a shotgun in the house would have helped. I don't know if the woman and the man were "in it" together.
Maybe CCP is called for. Maybe I need to try to sell a rifle to get money for what I need.
Again thank you all for your time.
-SS-
My confrontations have not been irrational. I understand the risks. A lot of the effectiveness in "influencing" these kids (telling them to turn it down or bugger off) is having the balls to do so in the first place. One guy wrecked or flowers out front the other day and I shouted at him from the house (I wasn't very polite), I think he was actually a bit embarrassed and perhaps intimidated, which surprised me a bit.
One of the reasons I think we have not been robbed is because there is always someone at our house through the day and night. I have an older son who is 20-something and out of work so he's around here a lot with his mum (thank gawd), but he is not of the opinion that we have a real problem, so is less interested in a house gun (he does understand guns and is safe with firearms). We have some pepper/mace spray around the house at key points that can be "felt" in the dark which is something I suppose. My wife is definitely gun shy and IMO somewhat naive about living in the city.
I'm going to ask around to try to organize something a bit bolder than a neighborhood watch. There's plenty of guys here that are tired of the petty crime, though breaking and entering is not petty... I know. But I wouldn't know what that show of solidarity would or should look like from the street. We would obviously not be in a hurry to break any laws without knowing.
We are also lucky in that there is an elementary school on our subdivision so there is some police presence.
I called police once when I had a crying young woman turn up on my front porch at 3:00 in the morning. She wanted to come in and said she was being followed. It was freezing cold and I was freezing my nads off. I said I would help, and offered to walk her home or call the police, but I was not going to let her in the house right away. She had a bag with her and I could not see what was in it. She didn't want me to call police because of warrants, and my wife talked me out of walking the young woman home. She could not leave because of the guy at the end of the street. In the end I did call the police. They came about three hours later to check everything was okay. The guy had got tired of waiting for her and left, then the young women left a while after. I guess the police wanted to finish their breakfast, it wasn't a 911 call.
I don't want to be in that position again. I'm not sure having a shotgun in the house would have helped. I don't know if the woman and the man were "in it" together.
Maybe CCP is called for. Maybe I need to try to sell a rifle to get money for what I need.
Again thank you all for your time.
-SS-
rude robert
New member
My neighbor, is a sheriff and knows that I have some weapons. He asked me what I used for the home, I told him. He was concerned that I was using a rifle and didn't want it to go through the home,him,next house, next block through the city and cars lol. Sorry