Home Defense Rifle

S

Sweet Shooter

New member
I'm at an impasse. I have a lot of money invested in .223 in terms of my horded ammo and "workshop/reloading area" It's my fav cartridge bar none. I foolishly got rid of two 3030's a few months ago, as I found them infuriatingly inaccurate. Our neighborhood is not a bad one, but at a recent block party we discussed the increase of break-ins and gang related activity. There is a house owned by a slum lord that everyone dislikes which has been busted for meth several times and has been refurbished several times as a result. We know that the people behind that operation are not actually living there. It has also been a half-way house for Mexicans coming into the country illegally. Those folks do not appear to be a problem themselves, and I have an open mind when it comes to a person's right to cross borders with good intentions. We concluded that while it's not bad, it's not getting better, and that it could be exacerbated by gangs controlling any part of the neighborhood. We have a Marshal living right here with us and he said they are not interested in the immigration issues this area has but he will not tolerate drugs and gangs. I have had several run-ins with gang bangers around our house over playing loud "music" while sitting outside in their car... My windows rattle sometimes. I have no problem in confronting them and am not scared of them. But I'm feeling like I need something in the house for protection now. I have my family with me which includes my wife and kids. I have never had a loaded firearm in the house and have a strict policy to remove bolts and let down/relax the firing pins. This puts those firearms about a minute away from service for me and inoperable to my family. It's not quick enough obviously. My wife is not a fan of having a handgun in the house and frankly neither am I so I'm understanding of her concerns. I'm strapped for cash right now but was considering a cheep shotgun... like a 20ga with birdshot. The other issue is even if I left one of my rifles operable would I be asking for a court case in the event I only wounded a BG in my home. We have Castle Doctrine here and I know my rights and understand the laws. My house is detached and does not share walls with neighbors. Should I consider using what I have or should I absolutely bite the financial bullet and gear up with something more appropriate? I know the .223 will stop a BG in my house but would that be the beginning of a legal battle? I also know that cartridge can end everything right there. What are your opinions on what I should do? Kinda wish I had an AR so I could tap several rounds. Is a bolt gun really that far off the mark?
-SS-
 
Shotgun might be a good bet - but I would avoid using birdshot and go instead for something with a lil more oomph. Not terribly expensive either.

Or even a have a loaded pistol that you keep on your person during the day and lock up at night.

Bolt action not really ideal for HD, but if its what you have, well...beats using a broom to whack 'em over the head.
 
Search the web for articles by Dr. Gary Roberts on terminal ballistics.

The .223 often penetrates LESS through barriers than 9mm and other pistol calibers. Especially with bullets that are frangible like the 68-75 gr BTHP, or the Hornady VMax 55-60gr. Black Hills and Hornady make such loads. Even the standard 55 gr FMJ will break apart at the cannelure at self defense distances.

A 12 ga or 20 ga shotgun is pretty good with #1 or 00 buckshot. But if the cost is a strain and you have lots of .223 and familiarity with that, then that is a good home defense choice.
 
IIRC Federal makes a 40 gr 223 which will penetrate very little .Indoors try to keep ear protectors with the rifle. Whatever the load it must be reliable.
 
First off, and please don't take this the wrong way, your posts would be much easier to read if you broke them up into paragraphs. Secondly, .223 is a fine personal defense cartridge when loaded with the proper ammo. Personally, I prefer a 62gr or lighter JHP although I wouldn't feel too bad about 55gr FMJ if that's all that I had. Understand that you will run some risk of overpenetration with nearly anything, even a .22 rimfire or birdshot can penetrate multiple interior walls in most homes.

It would seem from your post that the only firearms you own right now include bolt-action rifles. While a bolt-action is certainly better than harsh language, it would not be my first choice for a HD gun due to relatively slow follow-up shots. In my opinion, a pump-action, lever-action, or semi-automatic firearm is a much better choice.

As far as your safety concerns, one option might be keeping your magazine loaded but your chamber empty. While this does not allow you to get the gun into action as fast as an already-loaded chamber, it is still much faster than trying to get an unloaded and/or partially disassembled gun into action. If you want a .223, an AR would be a fine choice as would a Ruger Mini-14 or Saiga .223. Other good options would include a 20 or 12ga shotgun loaded with #4-#1 Buckshot or a pistol-caliber carbine such as a Marlin M1894 in .357 Magnum.
 
No offense taken... I apologize for my single para rambling. I can do better than that.

Thanks for your replies. I'm seeing 20ga shotguns for real cheap locally. Maybe that could be a useful investment as it could double as a walking up the mountain gun for upland game.

-SS-
 
SS, thanks. Paragraphs do help a lot in alleviating eye strain.

Meanwhile, a 20ga isn't a bad choice, but a rifle in .223/5.56 is quite viable for home defense. As others have already noted, the round typically penetrates less drywall than will slower, heavier pistol bullets; yet it will also penetrate most common body armor. Sort of a double-plus deal.

AR's are the most common platform, but a Mini-14 could potentially be had for less, and would still work quite well for HD. (The AR normally has an accuracy advantage over the Mini-14, but nothing that would matter at indoor distances.)

I do recommend getting a pair of electronic muffs, and keeping them alongside the rifle. If you have enough warning to get the rifle, you probably have enough time to don the muffs - and you will want them, if firing a rifle (or shotgun) inside a house.
 
Sweet Shooter said:
I apologize for my single para rambling. I can do better than that.
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Let's make this the last statement on paragraphs so the original rifle topic can be discussed, but I have to ask if you don't see the "Edit" button in your first post?
 
I like a shotgun with #4 buck or large bore non magnum handgun for inside the home. Rifles are to keep them distant so they don't get within handgun or shotgun range.
 
Search the web for articles by Dr. Gary Roberts on terminal ballistics.

The .223 often penetrates LESS through barriers than 9mm and other pistol calibers. Especially with bullets that are frangible like the 68-75 gr BTHP, or the Hornady VMax 55-60gr.
Click to expand...

With all do respect to Dr. Gary Roberts..........that is horse puckie.

I have a bunch of mild steel pistol target I used for my pistols and revolver. Including 38/357, 9mm, 45 ACP & LC, 44 mag. The targets work great for pistols but my grand kids shot them with my AR, using 53 grn Vmax.

They shot holes troughout my steel targets, the same targets the pistols didn't hurt.

I've taught LE Sniper Schools and SWAT rifle training, no way in heck is Mr Roberts gonna tell me the 9 mm will out penitrate a 223.
 
Here's the thing. I'm a typographer of over 25 years in advertising, and don't need lessons in setting type. I was rambling and I apologized.

But on topic—I too have pieces of (mild) steel that were fully penetrated at 300 yards by a regular 55gr FMJ. That's what made me think that perhaps my bolt rifles were not the right choice. That, and they don't handle fast enough. What I do like about them is that I can decommission them in the home by removing the bolt and dropping the pin. But that makes them redundant.

I think I'll take a look at one of those 20ga shotguns advertised in the locals.

But thank you fellas for your input. Much appreciated.
-SS-
 
Personally I keep a 20ga pump around for just such a purpose. Buckshot would be my personal preference for ammo though. Something to consider if you purchase a 20ga is look find one with a short barrel, a long barrel indoors is going to be very difficult to maneuver. I own 2 12ga shotguns but the 20 is my choice for a home defense weapon, it's light enough that my wife can handle it and recoil is completely manageable for her.

Stu
 
.223 bullets fired at rifle velocities whether FMJ, SP, HP, V-max all start to tumble as soon as they hit an objection such as dry wall loosing energy and momentum. Thus, they have less penetration abilility through multiple layers of sheet rock than 9mm and 45ACP. In theory, an AR would make an ideal home defense weapon and is good for SWAT teams, but I think they are a little difficult to secure around kids and keep readily available.

However, a pump shotgun is simple to secure (there are simple locks to secure the breach), load (keep rounds in the magazine), and keep available than an AR which needs lots of maintenance/lube to keep running. I think inside 15 yards there is not a more devastating SD weapon than a pump shotgun either in 20 or 12 gauge. If you are concerned about overpenetration, consider number 4 buck.
 
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First, do what ever it takes to move. If the 'hood is that bad you don't want to raise a family there.
Second, yep, get a good used shotgun and some buckshot.
 
Kraigwy, sorry, you are normally a fantastic source of info, but I believe this time you are off the mark. Yes, the 5.56 will do better than the 9mm or .45 through a layer of steel, or through a vest.

However, once it has penetrated the initial barrier, it loses energy very fast. You can check boxotruth, you can google 5.56 penetration, you can do any number of searches. The round tends to make a very nasty, very wide, but not very deep hole in ballistic media and in drywall layers.

One of the complaints from deployed troops has been that it does not perform well against adobe walls. This is in keeping with the other noted results.
 
kraigwy said:
With all do respect to Dr. Gary Roberts..........that is horse puckie.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, you're wrong. .223 can often penetrate less than 9mm because 9mm has more mass and moves slower - this means it stays together as it penetrates barriers. At the distances in homes, .223 is a small, lightweight bullet moving very fast. The combination of a small fragile round and speed causes the round to break up and the tiny fragments shed velocity much faster than a solid 9mm chunk of lead; meaning they end up penetrating less even though they started out faster.

One place this shows up is in comparisons of bare ballistics gel penetration. Another place is penetration of interior walls. Of course, this is dependent on velocity and type of bullet; but steel plate aside, there are situations where .223 penetrates less. Here are some links with the technical information:

Hornady .223 55gr TAP Urban (8.75" of bare gel) vs. Hornady 9mm 124gr TAP CQ (13.75" of bare gel)

Drywall Penetration Test (note all of the least penetrating loads are .223)

New Jersey Department of Criminal Justice Wallboard Test
 
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