I live in a pretty good middle class neighborhood but stuff happens. I believe in a layerd defense so I have motion sensor and dusk to dawn lights, locked gates on a 6' fence, and an alarm system. I also keep a 45 w/CT grip next to my bed along with 4 reloads. While I'm home a 12ga is next to my bed (no kids here). The 12ga has two low penetration #4 up first (I like my neighbors), followed by five full boat 00 buck in case the bad guy does not take the hint and I need additional penetration. Finally there are five 1600fps Hydra-Shok slugs in a stock cuff should I need them. Maximum flexibility to handle any situation.
Home defense: Rifle or shotgun in addition to pistol?
- Thread starter PunchPaper
- Start date
A few points about shotguns...
First, a lot of posters comment about how you don't need to aim so much. Unless they've sawed off their barrels to less than the legal limit, or are using a grandfathered horse pistol, that's just not true at in-house ranges.
The spread from my 20" slug barrel, using 00 buck, is only a few inches at 10 yards, if it's more than 2 inches. Yes, that's a greater hit area than my .45 would yield, but it's still not going to hit without being aimed. It's easier to quickly sight down the rib of a 20" barrel than down a 4 or 5 inch slide, but you still have to aim - unless you are so practiced with your weapon that you instinctively know where it will hit, in which case you will be one of those people who will automatically select that weapon for home defense anyway.
Second, while they pose some challenges for moving around a house, they are absolutely wonderful for staying put in a semi-barricaded position, while you call 911 and yell that you are armed and the cops are on the way. The racking sound of the slide on a pump gun does make a strong impression, as previously noted by other posters, though I do know of a case where a convenience store clerk made the same noise, under the counter, using an old credit card machine. (The brain is still the best weapon)
Last, my little cousin couldn't understand why my friend and I were telling him that we'd prefer a 12 gauge for a short range encounter, over, say, a tommy gun or a S&W .500. So, to make the point, we were destroying some half shot clay pigeons that had come to rest in some mud and clay on a riverbank, where I couldn't get to them for retrieval without risk of losing a boot. I leveled my 870, loaded with #7 1/2, and blasted a clay pigeon into virtual non-existence, in the process blowing a hole in the mud and clay that was about 4 inches in diameter and 8 to 10 inches deep. My cousin's eyes just about popped out of his head.
I pointed out to him that a buckshot load would have blasted in a bit deeper.
He decided we were probably right about the 12 gauges.
Cheers,
M
First, a lot of posters comment about how you don't need to aim so much. Unless they've sawed off their barrels to less than the legal limit, or are using a grandfathered horse pistol, that's just not true at in-house ranges.
The spread from my 20" slug barrel, using 00 buck, is only a few inches at 10 yards, if it's more than 2 inches. Yes, that's a greater hit area than my .45 would yield, but it's still not going to hit without being aimed. It's easier to quickly sight down the rib of a 20" barrel than down a 4 or 5 inch slide, but you still have to aim - unless you are so practiced with your weapon that you instinctively know where it will hit, in which case you will be one of those people who will automatically select that weapon for home defense anyway.
Second, while they pose some challenges for moving around a house, they are absolutely wonderful for staying put in a semi-barricaded position, while you call 911 and yell that you are armed and the cops are on the way. The racking sound of the slide on a pump gun does make a strong impression, as previously noted by other posters, though I do know of a case where a convenience store clerk made the same noise, under the counter, using an old credit card machine. (The brain is still the best weapon)
Last, my little cousin couldn't understand why my friend and I were telling him that we'd prefer a 12 gauge for a short range encounter, over, say, a tommy gun or a S&W .500. So, to make the point, we were destroying some half shot clay pigeons that had come to rest in some mud and clay on a riverbank, where I couldn't get to them for retrieval without risk of losing a boot. I leveled my 870, loaded with #7 1/2, and blasted a clay pigeon into virtual non-existence, in the process blowing a hole in the mud and clay that was about 4 inches in diameter and 8 to 10 inches deep. My cousin's eyes just about popped out of his head.
I pointed out to him that a buckshot load would have blasted in a bit deeper.
He decided we were probably right about the 12 gauges.
Cheers,
M
cannonballmount
New member
If you live in town, its best not to shoot a rifle, on account that MACH3 bullet will go through too many walls, and endanger all the neighbors. A shotgun is almost as bad, on account it throws a lot of projectiles. The Brits liked a big, 200 grain plus, bullet moving at not much more than 600 fps. A lot of impact without a lot of penetration. Always try to know where that bullet is going to end up, is my advice.
That story raises a good point about the portability of a handgun. He had to go to his room to retrieve the shotgun (and was very lucky that he made it unseen). He could have already had the handgun on him.
I always carry a small revolver in my pocket when I'm home. Some might call me paranoid, but if I was this in guy shoes, paranoid would have just been prepared. I've read too many of these stories, some right nearby in small town USA.
That said, I have both carbines and shotguns in the ready rack. The chances of me needing those are less than remote, but IMO it's better to not need and have, than need and not have.
f8lranger4x4
New member
Shotgun. Knocvkdown power and versitile
Crestliner
New member
Shotguns and handguns
I truly believe, that for home defense, you really do need both. I keep a S/S double barreled 12 ga. shotgun (both 20" barrels open choked), loaded with low base 00 buck (12 pellets in each round) by my bedside. I also have an Ruger 2" bbl. SP101 .357 loaded with 125 grn. Speer Gold Dot's as my back up. Shooting at the range with the scattergun at approx. 10 yards, I get about a 12" - 15" grouping of twelve .30 cal. pellets from each barrel. With the Ruger, I can consistently put 5 rounds into COM area, shooting DA, at 7 yards. BTW, this takes a LOT of practice! In a home invasion confrontation, firing two rounds (literally twenty four .30 cal. bullets) at an intruder, should either discourage them, or kill them. If not, I'd use the snubby to keep things under control, until police arrived.
I truly believe, that for home defense, you really do need both. I keep a S/S double barreled 12 ga. shotgun (both 20" barrels open choked), loaded with low base 00 buck (12 pellets in each round) by my bedside. I also have an Ruger 2" bbl. SP101 .357 loaded with 125 grn. Speer Gold Dot's as my back up. Shooting at the range with the scattergun at approx. 10 yards, I get about a 12" - 15" grouping of twelve .30 cal. pellets from each barrel. With the Ruger, I can consistently put 5 rounds into COM area, shooting DA, at 7 yards. BTW, this takes a LOT of practice! In a home invasion confrontation, firing two rounds (literally twenty four .30 cal. bullets) at an intruder, should either discourage them, or kill them. If not, I'd use the snubby to keep things under control, until police arrived.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
in addition to the Makarov velcroed by the holster onto my bedrail I keep a SXS 12ga Mag propped in near corner and my Marlin .45 Camp hanging on wall hook.
I'm a fan of the semi-automatic pistol caliber carbine for home defense. Without going the NFA route, it can generally be more compact and easier to handle in tight spaces than a shotgun. Unlike a traditional rifle, the pistol caliber carbine is relatively tame when fired indoors with a mild muzzle blast, and low recoil for fast follow up shots.
I personally have a Colt 6450, but I imagine that something like the Beretta CX4 would be ideal. There's also the Kel-Tec Sub 2000, the Hi-Point montrousity, and the discontinued but readily available carbines from Marlin and Ruger... oh and of course the other oddities like the Uzi carbines, semi-auto Thompsons and HK 94 style weapons.
I personally have a Colt 6450, but I imagine that something like the Beretta CX4 would be ideal. There's also the Kel-Tec Sub 2000, the Hi-Point montrousity, and the discontinued but readily available carbines from Marlin and Ruger... oh and of course the other oddities like the Uzi carbines, semi-auto Thompsons and HK 94 style weapons.
Mannlicher
New member
Most likely, your .45 is all you will ever need. Indeed, there is not much chance you will ever even need that.
Still, I like to hedge my bets, so my primary HD weapon is a shorty Bushmaster AR. I load with Winchester 45 grain HP.
Still, I like to hedge my bets, so my primary HD weapon is a shorty Bushmaster AR. I load with Winchester 45 grain HP.
arktravler
New member
When something goes bump in the night.... I'm a pretty big fan of a 12ga in my hands. While it's true that you can't just sound shoot, if you have a narrow hallway or other place, point and shoot may be effective. otherwise aim 
handgun/shotgun/rifle
00 buckshot is not commercially loaded in 20 guage - Bill D. is right.
However, the smaller buck is quite suitable; see the Box O' Truth website on 20 ga. #3 buck penetration.
Shooting a low recoil 20 ga slug should give you the practice you need to get used to shooting buckshot.
00 buckshot is not commercially loaded in 20 guage - Bill D. is right.
However, the smaller buck is quite suitable; see the Box O' Truth website on 20 ga. #3 buck penetration.
Shooting a low recoil 20 ga slug should give you the practice you need to get used to shooting buckshot.
My HD setup consists of a Beretta 92FS Vertec with an Insight Technologies M6 mounted on it and a Mossberg 590 A1 with a M4 style stock, side saddle, and a Pelican light mounted on it.
I think that if you live in a rural area, a HD rifle makes sense as you would possibly be engaging targets at extended ranges. I live in an urban area, so I chose a shotgun. I would be shooting at short distances and would not want rifle bullets going through walls and into other nearby houses.
I think that if you live in a rural area, a HD rifle makes sense as you would possibly be engaging targets at extended ranges. I live in an urban area, so I chose a shotgun. I would be shooting at short distances and would not want rifle bullets going through walls and into other nearby houses.
http://armedresponsetips.blogspot.com/2007/04/long-gun-or-pistol-in-home.html
Long gun or pistol in the home?
I read several gun related forums at various times to keep an ear out for product news what people are talking about. One topic constantly amazes me; the discussion of what type of firearm to use for home defense. The fascinating aspect is that, by far, most people talk about using a shotgun or a rifle and downplay the use a handgun. What AR should I use? Is buckshot OK inside? Is birdshot a better choice?
For me, I much prefer a handgun for most aspects of defending the inside of my home. I certainly acknowledge that long guns offer far better stopping power compared to a handgun, but the reason I prefer a handgun is because it is more practical.
Working within the confines of a typical home, the reality of dealing with light switches, doors, and family members often requires that one hand be available for extraneous use while the other operates the firearm. When the subject comes up in my tactical handgun classes, I have each participant in the class handle a shotgun while opening doors, activating light switches in the classroom and guiding family members to the a “safe room”. Inevitably, each student is forced to hold the shotgun with just one hand, usually for an extended time. Each time, often within ten seconds, the person quickly realizes how heavy and awkward it is to handle a shotgun with just one hand.
Let’s look at it from a naysayer’s point of view. “Light switches can be activated by shoulders and elbows while maintaining two hands on the long gun.” That may be true, but under extreme stress that method probably won’t be easy, plus, the instinctive method is to use your hands, and under extreme stress most people revert to what is instinctive. “It only takes a second to use a door knob”. Ok, I agree, that is true.
Some may say that “family members should be trained on what to do in a crisis and should not need to be directed.” Well, let’s be practical. How many of us have actually trained with our family members? Of those who have, do you drill often enough so that every member of the family is completely sure of what to do by instinct and won’t panic if an attack comes? Will your family know how to react if the event occurs differently than planned? Will anyone panic regardless of their training? What do you do if you have small children? In many, if not most cases, a leader must take charge, direct the family members, and ward off the attack.
Let’s say that you have trained yourself to open and close doors quickly, turn lights on and off with extraneous body parts, and you have no one else living with you. Is a handgun still the best choice? In my opinion, again, yes.
In order to not give your position away and to prevent a gun grab when negotiating travelways through the home, a gun should not protrude beyond a corner or through a doorway. To survey around a corner or pass through a doorway, a long gun must be lowered or raised to keep it from view. Due to its length and weight, that’s not easy to do, especially so with just one hand. Additionally, if you are limited to one hand, it’s not easy to get a long gun back on target in a hurry from a raised or lowered position. Whether you have one hand or two on your weapon, it is far easier to negotiate doorways with a handgun.
While a short-barreled rifle or shotgun is most often the weapon of choice for law enforcement entry teams, there is quite a difference between an entry team and a typical homeowner. First off, police are highly trained and practiced. Secondly, they are a team. One officer can operate the doors and deal with innocents while other members make entry and take care of business.
A long gun does have a presence in my home defense plan. In case of a home invasion, my plan consists of getting my handgun, gathering my family and directing them and myself to a “safe room.” This room is the one furthest the from anticipated entry location, one that is the easiest to get to and to defend, and one that has a cell phone and long guns. I plan to use my handgun to get my family safe, then defend my safe room with a long gun.
In reality, there is a lot more to planning a home defense than what is written here and the principles presented have been greatly simplified, but you can see that a handgun, does indeed, have plenty to offer in protecting your family and yourself.
Posted by David Kenik - Armed Response
Long gun or pistol in the home?
I read several gun related forums at various times to keep an ear out for product news what people are talking about. One topic constantly amazes me; the discussion of what type of firearm to use for home defense. The fascinating aspect is that, by far, most people talk about using a shotgun or a rifle and downplay the use a handgun. What AR should I use? Is buckshot OK inside? Is birdshot a better choice?
For me, I much prefer a handgun for most aspects of defending the inside of my home. I certainly acknowledge that long guns offer far better stopping power compared to a handgun, but the reason I prefer a handgun is because it is more practical.
Working within the confines of a typical home, the reality of dealing with light switches, doors, and family members often requires that one hand be available for extraneous use while the other operates the firearm. When the subject comes up in my tactical handgun classes, I have each participant in the class handle a shotgun while opening doors, activating light switches in the classroom and guiding family members to the a “safe room”. Inevitably, each student is forced to hold the shotgun with just one hand, usually for an extended time. Each time, often within ten seconds, the person quickly realizes how heavy and awkward it is to handle a shotgun with just one hand.
Let’s look at it from a naysayer’s point of view. “Light switches can be activated by shoulders and elbows while maintaining two hands on the long gun.” That may be true, but under extreme stress that method probably won’t be easy, plus, the instinctive method is to use your hands, and under extreme stress most people revert to what is instinctive. “It only takes a second to use a door knob”. Ok, I agree, that is true.
Some may say that “family members should be trained on what to do in a crisis and should not need to be directed.” Well, let’s be practical. How many of us have actually trained with our family members? Of those who have, do you drill often enough so that every member of the family is completely sure of what to do by instinct and won’t panic if an attack comes? Will your family know how to react if the event occurs differently than planned? Will anyone panic regardless of their training? What do you do if you have small children? In many, if not most cases, a leader must take charge, direct the family members, and ward off the attack.
Let’s say that you have trained yourself to open and close doors quickly, turn lights on and off with extraneous body parts, and you have no one else living with you. Is a handgun still the best choice? In my opinion, again, yes.
In order to not give your position away and to prevent a gun grab when negotiating travelways through the home, a gun should not protrude beyond a corner or through a doorway. To survey around a corner or pass through a doorway, a long gun must be lowered or raised to keep it from view. Due to its length and weight, that’s not easy to do, especially so with just one hand. Additionally, if you are limited to one hand, it’s not easy to get a long gun back on target in a hurry from a raised or lowered position. Whether you have one hand or two on your weapon, it is far easier to negotiate doorways with a handgun.
While a short-barreled rifle or shotgun is most often the weapon of choice for law enforcement entry teams, there is quite a difference between an entry team and a typical homeowner. First off, police are highly trained and practiced. Secondly, they are a team. One officer can operate the doors and deal with innocents while other members make entry and take care of business.
A long gun does have a presence in my home defense plan. In case of a home invasion, my plan consists of getting my handgun, gathering my family and directing them and myself to a “safe room.” This room is the one furthest the from anticipated entry location, one that is the easiest to get to and to defend, and one that has a cell phone and long guns. I plan to use my handgun to get my family safe, then defend my safe room with a long gun.
In reality, there is a lot more to planning a home defense than what is written here and the principles presented have been greatly simplified, but you can see that a handgun, does indeed, have plenty to offer in protecting your family and yourself.
Posted by David Kenik - Armed Response
El Paso Joe
New member
In a home defense scenario there is little difference between a rifle and a shotgun. The pellets are all pretty tight until you get out beyond 30 or more yards - and most houses are not that big. Or if it is - either you won't get that long a shot or you can afford security (I for one am not that well off...).
I have a short barrel pump in 12ga loaded with #4 buck. It will not penetrate the way 00 buck will, there are more pellets, and at indoor ranges it will penetrate and ventilate "well enough."
Usually, anyone who needs to be shot will be less than willing to get shot. They usually leave when they think they might get shot. Foxworthy has a few lines in one of his routines where he talks about potential perpetrators of crime avoiding a "redneck house" because "a gun lives there." Probably a lot to that. But in my (not so) humble opinion - what ever you use, practice with it, know what it will do, and be proficient.
I have a short barrel pump in 12ga loaded with #4 buck. It will not penetrate the way 00 buck will, there are more pellets, and at indoor ranges it will penetrate and ventilate "well enough."
Usually, anyone who needs to be shot will be less than willing to get shot. They usually leave when they think they might get shot. Foxworthy has a few lines in one of his routines where he talks about potential perpetrators of crime avoiding a "redneck house" because "a gun lives there." Probably a lot to that. But in my (not so) humble opinion - what ever you use, practice with it, know what it will do, and be proficient.
Rifleman 173
New member
You need to train for the scenario that you will probably one day face. Realistic training works to prepare you for what you will need to do under stress. Under stress you respond exactly how you trained. All three of the previous sentences are things that I've heard time and again as a firearms instructor. They all come down to the same thing: Train yourself and train often. How many police departments train their people to shoot from behind squad cars? Not many do that kind of training but that is one piece of equipment that officers frequently hide behind for protection at most tactical scenes. You often see them on t.v. crouched down next to their police cars nervously trying to peek around or over them to see what's going on. Want to know why so many officers get killed? The top answer has always been a lack of good tactical training for them. Followed by poor decisions made by the officer when under attack. One interesting thing that also surfaced is how the officer was treated by his superiors in the days before the shooting event happened. It is believed that at least one officer died because he had gotten chewed out a couple of days before he died for being "too aggressive" for "drawing his gun too soon" on a previous man-with-a-gun call and took the verbal beating too seriously. So a lot of things come together as far as training is concerned. The main thing is train hard and train often.
Donovan655
New member
i prefer having a shotgun as a back up weapon only because i live in a very small apartment. it is far easier for me to reach over to a table and grab the pistol. by the time someone has started a forced entry into my apartment, i've only got time to grab something, thus i reach for a handgun.
I don't have time to run into the bedroom or some other hiding place to retrieve and ready a shotgun.
I also have a large dog which is an underrated defense tool. it throws a monkey wrench into any home invasion plan and buys you a minimum of a few extra seconds and totally distracts the BG. with this set up I could rely on a shotgun as my primary weapon and i just might start doing that.
I don't have time to run into the bedroom or some other hiding place to retrieve and ready a shotgun.
I also have a large dog which is an underrated defense tool. it throws a monkey wrench into any home invasion plan and buys you a minimum of a few extra seconds and totally distracts the BG. with this set up I could rely on a shotgun as my primary weapon and i just might start doing that.
For HD, shotgun (primary), and handgun in a belt rig as secondary.
And have layers of security that will alert you with enough lead time to deploy at least one of them effectively, at all times of the day/night... e.g. outdoor alarmed perimeter detection, locked doors and windows, dog(s), interior door/window alarms, interior motion detection.
And have layers of security that will alert you with enough lead time to deploy at least one of them effectively, at all times of the day/night... e.g. outdoor alarmed perimeter detection, locked doors and windows, dog(s), interior door/window alarms, interior motion detection.
At short range, with the probability of being ambushed, I'm from the camp that a handgun always kept with you that is already loaded is the best solution. Manuverabliilty with a long gun can be partly addressed with the selection of a short stock and barrel, but is essentially a two handed solution, and is more difficult to operate in tight quarters unless well trained. The handgun would be used until I had access to my SG. Too many people have their SG quite farther away than arms reach, often not chambered, which is less than ideal when seconds count.
In our house, first most likely to be in direct contact would use a HG, the second family member, if time allows, would use the SG with a HG as backup. Needing to engage beyond the 50 feet would be highly unusal for self defense, but if living in a rural areas where real estate and response times are bigger, I'd transition to a rifle. Different tools for different situations.
HG always, long guns as the situation allows. Ammunition choices can reduce the risk of over penetration. Training routinely is probably more critical than the weapon selection.
In our house, first most likely to be in direct contact would use a HG, the second family member, if time allows, would use the SG with a HG as backup. Needing to engage beyond the 50 feet would be highly unusal for self defense, but if living in a rural areas where real estate and response times are bigger, I'd transition to a rifle. Different tools for different situations.
HG always, long guns as the situation allows. Ammunition choices can reduce the risk of over penetration. Training routinely is probably more critical than the weapon selection.