Home Defense Carbine

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Keith and David,
Regarding the "co-pilot" as an Alaskan bear gun, Marlin has your answer. New last year was the M1895G "guide gun" in .45-70. This year they have the same thing in .444Marlin. The barrel has been shortened from 22" to 18.5" and ported. The buttstock and lever have also been changed to a straight grip instead of the curved, semi-pistol grip.
Go to www.marlinfirearms.com.
If you go to the Gunsamerica site, you'll find guide guns for sale for $409. There may be other ads for more or less, I didn't spend a lot of time looking. Here is the URL:
www.gunsamerica.com/showguns.cgi?guncat=1940
I think you'll find this a much more affordable and powerful option. At most, maybe a pound heavier than a Trapper.

By the way, I grew up in Alaska (Anchorage area), before I joined the Navy and moved away. I spent some time on a fishing boat in Prince William Sound out of Whittier, but never made it to Kodiak. My folks had a 2nd house in Seldovia so I spent some time there as well. Good luck.

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Dorsai
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal
weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the
monarch of all he surveys.
-- Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
 
Kieth Rogan,
I don't know if you've checked my posting in the reloading forum or not. But after a little more research and a couple of opinions the conclusion is that the 94 Trapper can handle Ruger and Contender .45 Colt loads. The only remaining question is in regard to possible leading of the barrel at that velocity. The only way to know for sure is to try it. You could try jacketed bullets, but most of them are designed to expand and what you will need for bear is maximum penatration. While you know alot more about bear hunting than I do, my suggestion would be a 300 to 350 gr hard cast lead flat point (with a gascheck if possable) loaded to max velocity. Be sure to check over all lenght for reliable feeding.
I hope this info helps you out.
 
Dorsai;

> Marlin has your answer.

Eeeeeeeeeee... wrong! Jim West of Wild West Guns, Anchorage AK has the answer.... Marlin has the gull to barrow his answer, name it after one of the group of people Jim sells to and advertises the gun is suited for (all without compensation) and mass produce it.

Wonder if Jim is keeping an eye on Malcolm Coopers suit against GTC for their "reproduction" AWP stock.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Yep... thats another "standard" feature on the Co-Pilot.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Dorsai,

As Schmit points out, the Marlin Guide gun is an attempt to capitalize on Jim Wests co-pilot. Both the Co-Pilot and the Marlin Guide Gun are still a bit bulkier than the trapper - on the other hand, you get a much more realistic bear stopper in the .45/70.

So many guns, so little money... I think what I ought to do is find a beater .45 Colt Trapper and use it for the short term, then buy a Marlin Guide Gun when funds allow and eventually send that Guide Gun over to Jim West in Anchorage for the full conversion to a Co-Pilot.
Of course by then somebody will have invented a death ray gun that I'll just have to have....

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Schmit,

I thought you had a Co-Pilot. Since you don't, maybe you'd consider donating your next paycheck to the "Get Keith a Co-Pilot Fund". In return, you'll get a lovely certificate stating what a swell guy you are.
If you donate two paychecks I'll send you a framed certificate along with an autographed picture of myself (nude), clutching the Co-Pilot and smiling in a suggestive way.

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Grey fox,

Thanks for the reloading info on the Trapper! I'll probably avoid practicing much with heavy loads just to be on the safe side.
I agree totally with your suggestions on slugs as well. LBT makes truncated, gas checked flat noses that should fill the bill nicely.
I'm going to start looking for a used Trapper and put a ghost ring site on it. Eventually, I'll spring for a Marlin and retire the Trapper.

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith;

Surrrre. I'll do it if you'll be the first individual to donate to KASS (Krieghoff And Safari for Schmit). Only 50 individuals will be allowed this EXTREAMLY rare opportunity. Mimimum donation is 1 Month salery, but larger ones are happily accepted.

All those who donate will get a signed Certificate, T-Shirt & Ball Cap, Photos of Me naked (might want to keep significant others from seeing these) poseing with the Krieghoff with every head of game I take, and a set of Steak knives.





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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
Cor-bon makes a good defensive .45 LC. I believe it is a 200-grain @ 1,000 fps.

Glad Dorsai mentioned the Guide Gun.

Personally, I am fond of my 9mm Sub-9 carbine for home defense. Light enough to use one-handed, short-barrel, high-capacity...You might want to go for the .40 version. Load it up with Mullins ESM or GA Arms 155-grain Gold Dot loaded full-power (as opposed to the usual downloaded offerings). Essentially a semi-auto .357.
 
Returning to the topic of home defense carbine, I always thought the Bushnell holosight topped Ruger Pistol Calibre Carbine in 40 S&W backed with a Ruger P94 pistol would be a good combination. Headshots should be easy with the Bushnell and you and wifey could share common magazines.
 
Um, y'all know that .223 has LESS penetration through domestic wall material than 9mm and .45 ACP? Some tests were done at Gunsite and Mesa, AZ PD.

Seems that .223 tends to break up real fast (just like it does after it hits somebody) after going through a wall or 2 or 3. JHP pistol calibers, on the other hand, tend to plug up the cavity with wall material and sail through 4+ wooden walls with no problem.

Problem with .223 carbines for house defense is there are not many PC looking rifles in this caliber.

Edmund
 
I've always been happy with my choice of Marlin in 357. Reloading and ammo compatibility with the pistol were also two concerns. Judicious reloading can offer loads that can be quite happy in either weapon.

Dave, I read the post about Jim doing custom conversions on lever rifles. Jim who? Any way to contact him for some work I've been thinking about?

Ron
Detroit Chapter
Terra Haute Torque and Recoil Society
 
"Problem with .223 carbines for house defense is there are not many PC looking
rifles in this caliber"
So what? has anyone ever heard of a case where someone had legal trouble based on using a millitary style weapon in an otherwise justified shooting?
 
Ron,

The "Jim" who does lever action rifle work is Jim West of Wild West Guns. Theres a web site - I don'thave the URL handy but a search will turn it up. He sells accessories of his own design and manufacture as well as doing rifle work.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
I have heard of a case where use of an AR-15 in self defense caused a problem. I also knew a fellow in an apartment in Rockville, Maryland, who was much influenced by Mel Tappan (remember him) and kept an HK 91 with a full mag, one up the pipe and about 50 fully loaded mags handy. If he had cut loose at anyone, no matter the justification, he could have killed a dozen innocent people. Bullet over penetration may not seem important to some folks; it might after they are arrested for manslaughter and reckless endangerment, if not murder.

Recommend sticking with a sporting shotgun and #4 shot, or handgun like the.45 Colt. No reloads; a hit with a factory plain lead .45 bullet will stop anybody at 10 feet.

Expanding bullets: The law may go along with self defense, but the lawyer in the wrongful death civil suit says, "This evil monster lay in wait, his high power assault weapon loaded with the vicious bullets he concocted in his basement, designed only to rip and tear human flesh, while the poor innocent victim, who was only waiting for a bus..." Better believe PC is important!
 
Tony III:

I say the PC look may be trouble because the original poster seems to want a PC-looking rifle.

Me, personally, I favor an AR-15 pre-ban for those Really Bad Days (RBD), unless I'm going on the offensive, where I'll be bringing one of my precision rifles for long range "Gotcha!"

Edmund
 
Edmund;

I like the way you think. My choice for RBDs - Pre-Ban AR w/tritium Sights and Suppressor, LRGs - Accuracy International AWP. When one of those two doesn't fit the bill than either my 1911 GSP or Beretta 1201 GPS should.

And ya know what... they are all incorrect PC Black!

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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
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